Teen Prodigy Shatters Writing Norms: Shanti Hershenson's Story 📚

00:08.25
Bruce Anthony
Before we get started hershinson okay, all right, just wanted to make sure that I say they're right like Hershey but hershian son sin Son Hersh and son. Okay.

00:17.40
Shanti Hershenson
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:26.17
Bruce Anthony
Well like I said guys I'm here with Shante Hersley son and she's an teenage author and when I said teenage not 1819 Shanti how old are you 16 and you've written I may have old information.

00:39.35
Shanti Hershenson
I'm 16

00:45.26
Bruce Anthony
But you have 9 published books. But 14 that you've written know that there's more now.

00:49.72
Shanti Hershenson
Yeah, it's um, sixteen published books and then I have written 30

00:56.64
Bruce Anthony
Wow ladies and gentlemen this is the reason why I said the top. Why love gen z they do things that we wouldn't even even fathom to do um as a millennial gen x or a boomer so Shanti let's start from the beginning.

01:12.95
Bruce Anthony
What got you into writing.

01:13.98
Shanti Hershenson
So I've always like really really really loved writing like I have memories of being in like first grade and like I would like scribble on like pieces of paper and I would like tape them together and make these like little books. So it's like storytelling has just always been something that I was really interested in.

01:26.35
Bruce Anthony
E.

01:32.17
Shanti Hershenson
But it wasn't something that I thought I could do as like a kid and a teenager I remember when I was younger I like I probably wrote it down somewhere like I want to have a completely different job. But maybe if I am like able I could write like one book and it would be cool. But what I didn't realize is like I just wanted to write I didn't want to do anything else. So as I got older I Still you know I kept on writing and eventually the pandemic came around and that gave me the opportunity to write my first book.

02:02.21
Bruce Anthony
Are.

02:03.97
Shanti Hershenson
Because I was stuck at home I was like I need to do something I can't just be playing video games and like watching Tv all day that doesn't work I'm miserable. So I just started writing and the story I started writing it was really bad. Um, it's called biome lock and it's this alien invasion series. It was originally supposed to be 1 book.

02:08.43
Bruce Anthony
A 80

02:14.57
Bruce Anthony
Okay, okay. E.

02:23.57
Shanti Hershenson
However, that book got so long that it just had to be split into 3 different books. The first 2 have been published and the third one is still in editing and I it does have a place in my heart. It's ah it's a really nice book I don't like Eddie in my old books though. So nothing nothing personal against Biome luck.

02:29.68
Bruce Anthony
Okay.

02:38.33
Bruce Anthony
Well so that's interesting ah to to to just try and tie in a little bit so that there's a connection from your books and what what I'm doing right now interviewing. Um I can tell you this is this will be the one hundredth or seventh or eighth episode I I don't know which one. Ah, but I could tell you the first interview I did first few interviews I did sucked right? and because you're just starting out. It's just starting new. So don't I'm not gonna tell you what to think or how to feel right? if you feel like they suck. Okay, but it's a hell of an accomplishment.

03:17.29
Shanti Hershenson
Yeah, that one I was 12 so I was you know I was in middle school I was so little like.

03:17.57
Bruce Anthony
And and of itself because you first wrote this book when you were 14 Jesus like 12. Let me tell you something I was ah. Ten or eleven years old and I was first introduced to the movie. The godfather it's still one of my top 5 favorite movies and I found out. Oh it's a book and I got the book and at 10 years old that book was a little too big too dense too explicit for me to to read. But I said I want to write a book. I'm gonna do this so I got on this little laptop. They were much different back then they were these big bulky things and I started writing and I had nowhere to go like I had a story in my head and didn't know how to formulate it. So I know this question was gonna come. Later but I'm going to go ahead and jump into it now. What is your writing process. How is it different from when you were 12 to now 16 and how and how did you go about starting to write a book.

04:25.16
Shanti Hershenson
So when I began I Um, like most people had no idea what I was doing like I looked up how to write a book. But honestly any article online like this like how to write a book Some of them are helpful. Some of them aren't but the bottom line is. It's a very personal process.

04:28.37
Bruce Anthony
Edit.

04:38.72
Bruce Anthony
Okay.

04:40.88
Shanti Hershenson
And I think I made a tip one of my first tiktoks I ever posted was about it like that whereas like I you know I can guy can kind of guide you through the process and give you some tips on what to do, but it's ultimately like up to you so when I started writing I was like you know I'm just going to. It's going to be like a short story.

04:48.50
Bruce Anthony
No.

04:57.73
Shanti Hershenson
Obviously I had a little too many ideas for it to be a short story. But first like I just when I just started I had no idea where it was going I was like you know aliens they're making humans live in Biomes yay and um I was like well if it's good enough and maybe long enough I'll publish it and another um.

05:01.84
Bruce Anthony
He.

05:07.20
Bruce Anthony
Okay.

05:15.78
Shanti Hershenson
Like fact about me at the time is I had no idea how long a book was supposed to be. You always think in pages rather than words but then what I found is writers think in words, not pages.

05:23.71
Bruce Anthony
Um, Wow. Okay.

05:28.47
Shanti Hershenson
So I had to figure out like well what is the word count of you know my favorite book and at the time my favorite book. It's called the boy who dared it's a really good book and I think I read it when I was in about fifth grade. So that was my favorite book at the time and it's a short book. It's around 30000 words so I was like okay, my book is gonna be 30000 words and I just kept writing with that goal in mind and.

05:46.00
Bruce Anthony
Every.

05:48.44
Shanti Hershenson
What I soon realized was if I wrote like every single day that was much more like better and if I wrote the same amount every day. So then I started doing that and I passed the 30000 word Mark and I still was not close to being done and I was like okay.

05:56.35
Bruce Anthony
Um, okay, right.

06:04.20
Shanti Hershenson
Well, there's this book I really like and it's like 50000 words and then of course I passed the 50000 word Mark and it just kept going until I was about 250000 words in I think that was around my finishing point. It's kind of complicated because technically like I finished the book at 90000 words but then editing I added so much more stuff.

06:13.84
Bruce Anthony
250000 okay, thing here.

06:23.20
Shanti Hershenson
Because I had to like almost rewrote the book that it was so when I was 13 I had a 250000 word book under my belt and that was longer than any other book I had ever read in my entire life I do not read like I don't read long books. Usually.

06:31.76
Bruce Anthony
Wow! So so I'm trying to and and as you said originally people think is in pages not as in words, So how many pages is that many words.

06:43.25
Shanti Hershenson
Yeah.

06:49.73
Shanti Hershenson
So it depends on you know it all depends on like the type setting and everything but I have a printed version of it up there and that is about 800 pages 900 pages it was a lot. Um and I was a kid that I'd like to read I enjoyed reading i.

06:52.70
Bruce Anthony
Okay.

07:03.39
Bruce Anthony
He.

07:06.94
Shanti Hershenson
Not like reading like really long books when I was in Seventh grade I tried to read war and peace and I did not get more than a hundred pages in like I you know I feel like most kids really struggle with really big intimidating books. But then I've written what it's intimidating to edit.

07:11.30
Bruce Anthony
Yeah, okay.

07:21.80
Bruce Anthony
Right? Yeah, that would be intimidating and edit so okay I'm trying to think of the process. So years ago years years years ago I was ah.

07:27.32
Shanti Hershenson
Yeah.

07:33.98
Bruce Anthony
Creative Director for professional wrestling companies. So It's storytelling and you would write a program or a script or story of where you wanted to go and we always started or me personally when I wrote the script out I started at the end. Where I wanted it to go and then went backwards to the beginning. How was it when you first started writing your very first book. Did you start at the end or did you start at the beginning and then as you're writing you're coming up with more and more stuff.

08:06.40
Shanti Hershenson
I definitely started at the beginning it was ah it was a really write and see where it goes book. Um, for the first I don't know meet ten Twenty Thousand words of the book I was just writing whatever came to mind and then eventually what happened was I started having ideas that I needed to write down for later in a lot of my.

08:09.82
Bruce Anthony
A.

08:25.88
Shanti Hershenson
Ideas were really absurd and ridiculous like I was just writing down anything I could think of because you know this is my first book I want it to be great. Um, but honestly my ideas were terrible and honestly though, my process now is very similar to that but I will say I do have more of an overall idea in mind now.

08:31.50
Bruce Anthony
Um.

08:44.58
Shanti Hershenson
Like with the book with with the books I'm writing now I'm like well I know how it's going to begin obviously and I know approximately what I want to get done by the end of the story and I'm not a big outliner. Although I'm not necessarily the kind of writer who just has keeps going and is surprised.

08:45.40
Bruce Anthony
Um, in.

08:51.24
Bruce Anthony
E.

09:01.40
Shanti Hershenson
It also depends on the world because I've had some books where I've literally written nothing down and just have just written it. Um, but usually what happens is I Just as I'm writing I get some ideas and by the halfway point I have a pretty good idea of like what's going to happen from then on.

09:03.15
Bruce Anthony
Okay.

09:16.27
Bruce Anthony
Okay.

09:19.15
Shanti Hershenson
And that's what I'm doing like with the book I'm writing right now. Although I have a really bad habit of I'm literally writing my notes inside the document rather than on a separate you know thing but whatever works.

09:29.00
Bruce Anthony
Right? Yeah and it's your process right? As you said everybody, it's ah it's their personal journey writing is your personal journey. So however, you get through it you get through it in 30 books is pretty remarkable now I have to ask.

09:33.25
Shanti Hershenson
Yeah.

09:43.34
Bruce Anthony
Because you've written so many. It's 30 books and basically 4 years right because you started at the beginning of the pandemic here we are in 2024 so it's 30 books and and in 4 years um and you're in high school now. So you started when you were in middle school year in high school how does writing affect your not only your academic life.

09:44.58
Shanti Hershenson
Yeah.

10:00.71
Bruce Anthony
But also your personal life.

10:02.93
Shanti Hershenson
So I'd say that in some ways it affects my academic life because I tend to prioritize my writing over my schoolwork with that being said I still like it good grades and I still um, you know I still complete all my homework but sometimes I like I write first and I have to do my homework like last minute. Um.

10:07.83
Bruce Anthony
In her.

10:16.83
Bruce Anthony
A.

10:20.38
Shanti Hershenson
Socially. However I have noticed it doesn't have as much of an effect as it may seem I try to also just get my writing done before I see people. But sometimes if I'm seeing people like earlier in the day then I'll just get my writing done later but I still like I'm still able to like have a pretty normal social life.

10:23.18
Bruce Anthony
Okay. Here.

10:39.57
Shanti Hershenson
But still I do prioritize my writing over that meaning like if I have something important that day That's like writing related or if I have an event I am going to do that over you know, anything else.

10:49.80
Bruce Anthony
What's that like for you socially here you are 16 year old author you're doing interviews you're doing you add websites you're doing appearances. Ah, you're basically a child celebrity. So what is that like.

11:03.82
Shanti Hershenson
Me it can be a little scary I have to say I know there's a lot of people who are like you know in english classes I found that it's like you know, um this was more so when I was in middle school than now in like ninth grade.

11:05.80
Bruce Anthony
Socially for you.

11:17.37
Bruce Anthony
And.

11:19.37
Shanti Hershenson
Um, but like people you know we had to do this thing where people could sign up to critique your work and no one would sign up to critique mine I got no feedback. Yeah, so people can be kind of intimidated and it's a little. It's a little upsetting because it's like you know I'm kind of normal like I do have normal interest too. Um, but also in many ways It's really cool.

11:25.33
Bruce Anthony
Ah, they were intimidated.

11:32.48
Bruce Anthony
Right. Me.

11:38.93
Shanti Hershenson
Like and honestly like I wouldn't really trade it for anything like it's a lot of fun like being able to like go around and meet people and do interviews and like sign books and stuff and I think there's a lot of you know people I know who are like my age who don't entirely understand it because you know there's probably a lot more fun things that a teenager could be doing but like to me.

11:54.29
Bruce Anthony
Um, right.

11:58.81
Shanti Hershenson
Like this is really fun. Yeah.

12:00.58
Bruce Anthony
Right? Because this is your passion this is where you this is this is your love. How is ah okay so you started 12 what was the encouragement or discouragement like from your parents.

12:12.17
Shanti Hershenson
So my parents were like really really supportive early on the funny thing is I didn't tell them I was writing a book at first I have this thing where for some reason I'm always like slightly embarrassed about the book I'm writing when I'm starting out I cannot explain why.

12:15.51
Bruce Anthony
You just did it.

12:25.41
Bruce Anthony
He.

12:29.29
Shanti Hershenson
Like there's always something I'm like oh you know I don't know if I want to like talk about it yet. But it just like comes from like this weird like sense of like embarrassment. So I did not talk about the book at first like I don't even think I told them I was writing a book and then one day like sort of mid pandemicmic.

12:31.17
Bruce Anthony
And.

12:41.71
Bruce Anthony
Um.

12:47.57
Shanti Hershenson
Um, we had like family over and we were doing you know like the socially distance backyard like thing and I came out and I was like do any of you guys. Want to read the prologue for the book I'm writing and everyone was like what and then I read it and everyone was really supportive even though it was probably a really.

12:50.11
Bruce Anthony
You.

12:56.55
Bruce Anthony
Wow.

13:06.29
Shanti Hershenson
Bad Prologue I don't entirely remember the I think kind of remember the biolock pro prologue but I could not tell you how bad it is like I'm not sure but I think it was pretty like all over the place, especially like the early version of the prologue like pre-editing was pretty rough.

13:15.75
Bruce Anthony
Um.

13:21.57
Bruce Anthony
Right? ah.

13:25.20
Shanti Hershenson
But um, they were all still like immensely supportive about it and I was you know, really grateful because yeah they I know people whose parents aren't and whose family isn't and that it really does like make a difference.

13:32.25
Bruce Anthony
Right? I I'm not a parent but I am somebody's child and you know my parents. My dad is you know he does music and. Musician and my mom has always done crafts. They have their regular jobs but they've already. They've always kind of encouraged I have a a sister and a brother. They've always encouraged us to do the things that we're interested in and Arts has always been. Part of that interest and I think it's very important for parents to encourage those interests in arts and their kids because it it expands them and their personality and their view of the world. So That's absolutely beautiful that you had so much support and.

14:22.46
Shanti Hershenson
Yeah.

14:26.38
Bruce Anthony
And was it a little nerve wracking because it's not your immediate family. It was an extended family correct.

14:29.43
Shanti Hershenson
Yeah, it was like it was really scary and like you know I didn't know like how they were going to react because you know I'd never shared I don't think I shared the prologue with really anyone I do kind of remember that I think I sent it to like my seventh grade teacher.

14:45.26
Bruce Anthony
Um.

14:45.74
Shanti Hershenson
But other than that like you know, like no one had read it and of course like your teacher's gonna be nice to you that again, your family's gonna be nice to you too. But yeah.

14:51.10
Bruce Anthony
Right? Well, that's sometimes you know my family we we we cut to the truth and just you know if it if it's bad. It's bad if it's good. It's good. Um, so you write about diverse genres.

15:01.97
Shanti Hershenson
Yeah.

15:08.90
Bruce Anthony
And we'll get into um some of your more recent books and you won't know her name and I know her name but not only are you doing poetry you're doing Dystopia you're doing sci-fi how it. Do these ideas just come to you and it's like I want to write about that or is it strategic. Do you write a book and say okay I want to try to write something different. So I'm going to go over here. That's completely opposite of what I was doing before.

15:41.59
Shanti Hershenson
It's a mix of both I Have to say a lot of the time I just have an idea I remember um when I first started writing biolock which is also like my first dystopian book I didn't even know what the genre was I was just like Aliens I Guess this is sci-fi but now I do have a pretty clear idea of what the genre is as I'm writing.

15:54.12
Bruce Anthony
Um e.

15:58.40
Shanti Hershenson
And typically it's just like an idea pops in my head or I see something somewhere and I'm like you know this would make a pretty cool book. But other times you know, especially when I have the books that are like really really really long. For example, the book I'm writing right now. Um about 120000 words in and it's a y a book. So it's a little complicated because it's not supposed to be that long.

16:07.39
Bruce Anthony
A.

16:17.94
Shanti Hershenson
But I'm like you know I don't want to write another high school book I got to write something different. Yeah.

16:22.19
Bruce Anthony
Um, right, you want to challenge your writing ability. Yeah I can dig that. Um, so let's get into some stuff that you talk about. And you won't know her name and that book tackles the issues of bullying Um, can you share the inspiration of writing that book.

16:41.57
Shanti Hershenson
Yeah, so you owner her name is very very much based on a true story. It's like it's basically like exactly like what happened to me and it's um, it was a hard book to write So I started writing it and I think you know it was actually a pretty quick process because it's poetry.

16:43.86
Bruce Anthony
M.

16:58.43
Shanti Hershenson
So I wrote it when I was thirteen years old and it was the summer between seventh and eighth grade and I like I just didn't really think anything was gonna come of it at first I so I got bullied really really badly when I was in sixth grade and it was horrific. It was terrible like the book really goes into it a lot.

16:58.94
Bruce Anthony
Um.

17:01.39
Bruce Anthony
He.

17:10.30
Bruce Anthony
A.A.

17:17.24
Shanti Hershenson
And the response I received from my school was very much like oh it's just middle school that happens all the time and evidently it's not just middle school. But I you know I felt silenced I felt like there was nothing I could do I tried like speaking at like board meetings about it I tried meeting with like.

17:20.33
Bruce Anthony
Okay, okay. No.

17:36.41
Shanti Hershenson
Anyone I could trying to make a difference in my school and really nothing was happening so I was like well I could write a book about it mainly Also it was just because I wanted to get the story off my chest I was really tired of being told to like be quiet so I should have reading it and then I published it honestly it was kind of random compared to my other releases.

17:38.40
Bruce Anthony
Me.

17:44.23
Bruce Anthony
Right.

17:55.58
Shanti Hershenson
Just like okay I'm writing this book. It's going to come out in a few days. You know, buy it if you want and my marketing at the beginning was really weak. But what I found was the book like instantly did really well and it did it started doing better than like all of my other books. So.

17:59.33
Bruce Anthony
Right.

18:09.90
Bruce Anthony
Did you with the audience that read the book and I'm going to assume that that okay, first let me ask you? What was the core audience that bought and read this book.

18:23.65
Shanti Hershenson
It's always hard to tell. But it's definitely a mix of like teenagers that are currently um, you know going through hard times. It's cool and just you know teenagers in General. So um, there's a lot of adults who've read the book and reviewed it and I've said that it brought them back to their own middle school days.

18:38.86
Bruce Anthony
Yeah, so that's the reason why I I Love Gen Z and you guys will make sure that your voices are heard I have not been a teenager in a very long time. But I. Absolutely remember what it was like and I had a different experience. Um I was more of a taller guy bigger kid so I wouldn't get bullied that much because there was a physicality that I would bring to it. But. There was still bullying. There was people picking on and it didn't change like middle school high school. Guess what? there's always these kind of people as you grow up that are bullies. Um, but I'm interested in and.

19:25.83
Shanti Hershenson
Yeah.

19:31.46
Bruce Anthony
I want to get back to that. But I'm interested in the dystopia start of your writing was that because you had an interest and just aliens and invasion because dystopia is really I mean we're talking like Mad Max it's the end of the world bad type of situations. Was this how you were viewing the world that you were living in at the time or was this just something that you it was just cool to see and examine.

20:00.86
Shanti Hershenson
I'd say yes and no I think um, there was a part of me that really wrote it from this place of like frustration with like things that were going on in the world but there was also you know a part of me that was like this is cool like I like this. Um.

20:06.54
Bruce Anthony
E.

20:13.63
Bruce Anthony
Right.

20:18.26
Shanti Hershenson
And it was really like um you know a lot of it was just like I was interested and aliens and stuff. But there's also I noticed in biomlock and this isn't even something I became aware of until years after there's a lot of themes of isolation in the book and of course.

20:29.77
Bruce Anthony
Who write.

20:33.87
Shanti Hershenson
You know we are going through a global pandemic so I was really isolated and I was you know, stuck at home for most of the time and it felt really really challenging to just like go outside and that kind of is reflected in Biome luck and I just think you know it's really interesting because that wasn't something I was at all aware of at the time.

20:41.90
Bruce Anthony
To.

20:52.67
Shanti Hershenson
Was just something that I was writing and then I realized it really kind of a lot of the things that characters are going through reflected how I felt at the time.

21:00.34
Bruce Anthony
Wow! The the isolation because I've always been fascinated at at how it affected your generation because me I'm a grown adult I loved being isolated because ah I don't like socializing and going out that much just when you get older these things happen.

21:09.26
Shanti Hershenson
Yeah.

21:16.93
Bruce Anthony
But for your generation for your age That's what you want to? do you want to be around your friends you want to go out. You want to do things how isolated not only from the pandemic but just in life and general when comparing to the book. You won't know her name did you feel. And other words so you were being bullied in the sixth grade pandemic comes. So did you feel isolated from the bullying and then it's just added on to the fact that the pandemic comes and there's an extra isolation extra layer of isolation. There.

21:49.86
Shanti Hershenson
I think honestly kind of the opposite like I was feeling really isolated during the pandemic I also kind of felt kind of free because you know I couldn't you can't really easily get bull leaded and then the pandemic there're cyber rolllying um, but that didn't happen till seventh grade. So.

21:55.45
Bruce Anthony
Um, Wow. Okay, with this is true.

22:07.18
Shanti Hershenson
Um, you know it was a point where I was like well I don't have much to worry about and honestly at first like the first maybe month or so of the pandemic was great like I am not a particularly social person. A bit of an introvert I didn't really mind like watching Tv all day and not having to go to school in person. But then of course you know, got bored and really it was the boredom that caused that isolation because you know there were things I started to miss like I really missed the trampoline park and I missed. Um.

22:28.11
Bruce Anthony
Um, right.

22:33.79
Bruce Anthony
Here if.

22:40.72
Shanti Hershenson
You know, like going out to eat and I missed like going traveling So that's where the isolation came from is like the little things like I missed rather than like I didn't really miss talking to people but you know I still got through it and how I got through it was writing.

22:48.93
Bruce Anthony
M. Yes, and that's a fantastic outlet So before we before we end this segment. We talked about you won't know her name but then you follow that book up with I know her name can you tell my audience. What that book is about and how they complement one another.

23:13.46
Shanti Hershenson
Yeah, so I know her name is a very very real collection of poetry and I say it's very real because it's just genuinely Poems I wrote like. Before during and after the publication and you own her name like a lot of the poems or Poems I wrote while I was being bullied and then there are some I wrote after and reflecting on everything and feeling almost like sympathy for the bully but at the same time like wishing I'd never met her and like.

23:32.62
Bruce Anthony
Fly better.

23:40.64
Bruce Anthony
E.

23:44.60
Shanti Hershenson
All of these. It's a lot of really complicated emotions. It's a very edgy poetry book to the point where it's like I'm like oh I don't like this because it's like middle school poetry but it's also you know I kind of like this. It's middle school poetry because it's just it's real.

23:50.30
Bruce Anthony
Oh.

23:56.27
Bruce Anthony
Right.

23:58.53
Shanti Hershenson
It's things I wrote when I was 13 you know the poems don't have to be amazing for the message to get across. Yeah.

24:01.92
Bruce Anthony
Right? They're raw and authentic and that's the most important thing.

24:14.50
Bruce Anthony
So Shanti writing about the themes of bullying I want to get into how the bullying affected you I know you used writing as an outlet in order to deal with the bullying but I want to know like how the bullying personally affected you. And then how has writ writing these books and the audience response to these books affected you because I'm sure there's some people that have come to you and said your book inspired me to tell my story. Your book inspired me to realize I'm not alone which is so very very important for people to realize that they're not alone. So can you get into a little bit about 1 how the bullying affecting you personally and then the response to your books afterwards.

25:04.33
Shanti Hershenson
Yeah, being so young the bullying affected me in like some like kind of strange ways like for 1 you know, very typical way I was terrified I was absolutely terrified to come to school I you know I'd never had a panic attack really before then and I was like you know panicking.

25:16.56
Bruce Anthony
Oh.

25:24.70
Shanti Hershenson
I was just like you know had did this happen to me because you know I don't want to get into like exactly what happened too much because that I want to spoil the book. But you know this person was my friend and then them being my friend turned into this really weird. You know, like disturbing relationship and I was in many ways.

25:28.14
Bruce Anthony
Right? right? right.

25:38.33
Bruce Anthony
Alright.

25:43.26
Shanti Hershenson
Confused I didn't know how I was supposed to handle it. You know I didn't want to be the kid that was like oh you know I'm so scared but I kind of you know was in many ways. There was also a part of me that was like oh you know like I'm trying to fan a way to word this. That's not you know I was like.

25:44.36
Bruce Anthony
And.

25:51.80
Bruce Anthony
Any.

26:00.88
Bruce Anthony
Say what you feel? ah.

26:02.30
Shanti Hershenson
I want revenge not that I ever even got revenge. But 1 thing I did was um, there was this particular Tv show I really liked that they constantly like made comments about and like that you know.

26:09.74
Bruce Anthony
E.

26:14.42
Shanti Hershenson
A lot of the bullying had to do with the things I was interested in. Of course it was much more deeper than that now that I'm older but that's kind of like when I Also when I was younger like I didn't even fully understand what was going on I was like oh they bullied me because I didn't like this Tv show. It was a lot more than that you know so I wore a different shirt.

26:18.70
Bruce Anthony
Writing exactly? yeah. M.

26:32.34
Shanti Hershenson
That show every single day at one point. Um I Also you know I really made it known like I don't feel comfortable around this person and I wasn't shy about talking about it which you know in some ways I feel a little bad about. But also you know it's kind of the you know I warned people and what I realized was there were a lot of people.

26:36.54
Bruce Anthony
Ah.

26:51.38
Shanti Hershenson
Had the same experience like at my school like with that person it was and it turned into this really long kind of conflict with my school administration where it's like there is evidence that this person really needs to get help. But you're not doing anything about it. You know.

27:04.26
Bruce Anthony
Um, Wow. So Wow So you're dealing with all of that and you're writing books and you publish these two Very very important books that deal with bullying.

27:10.00
Shanti Hershenson
Yeah, yeah.

27:17.28
Bruce Anthony
What was the response like when people read those books.

27:19.59
Shanti Hershenson
The response you know it was amazing like I always think you won't know her name is not that good of a book Overall just because the writing style kind of annoys me now because like it's poetry but the poetry is not even that good and I you know should have done it differently. But either way the response was amazing.

27:36.74
Bruce Anthony
Moving.

27:38.58
Shanti Hershenson
Like I've had so many reviews and I've received messages from people who are like this book really helped me like you know this book made me feel like I'm not alone and that was really good because then those messages made me feel like I wasn't alone and it's really like you know I help my readers and my readers help me and you know.

27:45.00
Bruce Anthony
So. Right. Who.

27:58.46
Shanti Hershenson
Just like reading the reviews of people who are like you know, like especially the adults who are like you know this book brought me back to my own middle school days. It's a really surreal feeling because you know it means you're writing really touch people and of course you know I'm sure like my other books that've touched people too. But those are like you know action packed sci-fi books.

28:08.99
Bruce Anthony
Um, right.

28:17.66
Shanti Hershenson
Don't necessarily touch people in the way that these like personal books do for example, um, one of my more recent books had the same effect and it's you know, the first time I've had that response since you won't know her name and those are some of the kinds of books I enjoy writing the most or the ones that I know are really going to impact people and are really going to make a difference.

28:30.60
Bruce Anthony
Um.

28:36.90
Shanti Hershenson
Worse than just giving people like a good time.

28:38.74
Bruce Anthony
Ah, you know what? I I think that filling somebody's mind taking somebody's mind away and filling. Somebody's heart is fantastic and that's the reason why I was really fascinated with not only your age and being an author but how you tackled. Different genres you are helping people with every book that you write. But I'm Interested. You said the more recent book that you did could you tell my audience about the more recent book that you did that also has given you the same kind of ah um. Appreciation or the same kind of effect on you personally as um, you won't know her name and I know her name. Okay there you go.

29:21.65
Shanti Hershenson
Yes, so I have a book called Heopas with heaven actually have it like I always have it sitting on my desk and this is an author copy those so it has the ugly banner but it was um, it was a pretty interesting book because it wasn't actually supposed to be as deeply personal as it was and. The idea started out from a daydream I had and where I was like oh it would be really interesting if I got to like talk to my younger self who is like really into writing so that was the basis for it and then I wrote down like oh well imagine an author time traveling to like talk to their younger self and you know there's a lot of plot holes in that. But what happened was.

29:39.74
Bruce Anthony
He.

29:45.49
Bruce Anthony
Oh.

29:51.66
Bruce Anthony
Wow.

29:57.92
Bruce Anthony
And.

29:58.17
Shanti Hershenson
I started writing the screenplay and I just you know it was for my freshman creative writing class and I just I loved writing it. It was a 45 page screenplay. It was like the longest like of work in the class which was embarrassing. And it it went from being an author just time traveling to talk to her younger self to an author who's like enlisted as the first time traveler and has to observe her younger self but she can't interact so it then becomes this sort of um, you know there's now a conflict but as I was writing it. It was basically me in like 20 year not

30:26.86
Bruce Anthony
Aha.

30:31.52
Shanti Hershenson
Twenty or so years and I'm like really really really famous and I'm going to go travel back in time. So it really is all the characters are based on me more so the younger self than the older self obviously and um.

30:32.75
Bruce Anthony
M.

30:45.48
Shanti Hershenson
Also happened to get bullied when I was in fourth grade and it wasn't nearly as bad as what I experienced when I was in middle school but it was still. You know it was something it still hurt So the author you know unknowingly gets sent right back in time to that period and she has to try not to like interact and at the same time.

30:53.97
Bruce Anthony
Um.

30:56.82
Bruce Anthony
Wow.

31:03.47
Shanti Hershenson
You know we have the younger self's point of view and we watch as she you know, explores her love of writing but also has it be taken away by like unsupportive teachers and mean classmates. So It's like we have these 2 things at once and you know the bullying is really really, really realistic and just basically just exactly like what happened to me. Um, and then at the same time we have this cool like time travel adventure where this author is going back and like visiting all these nostalgic things and like taking notes and really trying to like you know, get an understanding of like how she got to the point she was and then of course it all starts to come together when she realizes like you know she can't just like sit aside and you know. Watch like you know her younger self be like tormented. Thank you.

31:43.59
Bruce Anthony
Right? Wow, That's that's a that's a dope story. Um, Okay so that leads me to a different question because you're still a student and you're still taking English courses. What is it like what is it dynamic like with teachers when they find out when you enter in their classroom. This is a published author.

32:06.32
Shanti Hershenson
It definitely again like you know depends I have most like all my teachers right now are all like extremely supportive but in the past I've had teachers that are like not supportive and that's a very you know challenging like thing did it have.

32:08.87
Bruce Anthony
Okay, okay.

32:19.37
Bruce Anthony
Ah.

32:23.92
Bruce Anthony
I I would think that that with ads the older you get you'll you'll receive less and less challenge. Ah yeah, because they'll see you more not quite as a peer but more of an adult.

32:32.40
Shanti Hershenson
That's definitely how it's been. Yeah.

32:40.11
Bruce Anthony
Whereas when you were younger, they were probably like this little kid thinks that they're smarter than I am and that's not what you're doing and in a way are is is your writing therapy because a lot of it is very personal. So when you when you write is there a.

32:43.31
Shanti Hershenson
Yeah.

32:48.71
Shanti Hershenson
Yeah, definitely yeah.

32:59.29
Bruce Anthony
A release of relief.

33:02.67
Shanti Hershenson
Yeah, it really especially in the books that ah that are like you know personal to me that have a lot of things based on true stories. It really does feel like I'm getting things off my chest like occasionally you know there are things I'm writing that's like I've never told anybody.

33:12.26
Bruce Anthony
Um, right.

33:15.90
Shanti Hershenson
And then being able to like get it off my chest and able to like really share it with my readers and have people that relate to these experiences is really really, really great like I'm feeling it with a book I'm writing right now where it's um, it's not really based on a true story but there's like little things and characters that are based on real people and then being able to write them. Is just really relieving and it kind of frees me of that like you know, internal like anxiety almost that I have.

33:36.70
Bruce Anthony
Right? Do you think it's easier. Obviously I'm I'm asking probably a dumb question here. But for you, it's probably easier to write it in the form of a character as opposed for you to come out and just say.

33:43.44
Shanti Hershenson
No, it's okay.

33:56.55
Bruce Anthony
This is what's going on for me but but you're writing the character is you are pieces of you and you're saying your truth through the character and and so you don't have to say it yourself your work says it.

34:08.73
Shanti Hershenson
Yeah I Definitely yeah, it's like it is easier. A lot of the time, especially with like people I don't know like I'm always like you know I don't want to tell like people I don't know too well like a lot of stuff but then I'm kind of telling you know straight complete trainers things like you know.

34:20.45
Bruce Anthony
Ah.

34:25.71
Shanti Hershenson
Through my writing but also like when it comes to my close family like I'm very open so I just stride up to say things. Yeah.

34:29.69
Bruce Anthony
Right? Okay, um, okay, so can you tell me what it's like trying to get your work published.

34:40.97
Shanti Hershenson
Yeah, so I self-publish with Kindle direct publishing and in some ways it makes the process easier in many ways it makes it really really difficult because I have to do everything on my own I of course you know I have an editor and I hire cover designers but all of that outreach is completely me.

34:46.94
Bruce Anthony
Are.

34:57.60
Bruce Anthony
M.

34:59.40
Shanti Hershenson
I You know I have to like reach out to designers I have to you know, figure out the whole. Thankfully you know I've published enough books now that gdp is like pretty easy for me. But you know occasionally there's like little hiccups that make it really really annoying.

35:10.69
Bruce Anthony
So Anybody can self- publishlish a book that they want to what are the processes for some because there are gonna be some people out here that are goingnna listen and watch this and say you know I've had this idea for a book A really long time but I don't know how to even. Begin getting it publish or maybe they have a finished book and they're shopping into publishers not knowing that there's an option to self-publish. So what? like what? what is the process of of doing that.

35:39.36
Shanti Hershenson
Yeah, so really, all you do is you go on Amazon's kdp or I also use ingram spark for my expanded distribution and what you do what you do from there is you have to like you know, fill out this form. That's like you know, books title all the information and then you upload the files and then like you set the pricing.

35:48.60
Bruce Anthony
Um.

35:56.99
Shanti Hershenson
And you know you do the categories and the description and then you you know you like set the price I think I sits at the pricing already. But anyways and then you hit publish not instantly. It has to go through review but I've never had a book really get rebounded unless there's like maybe the cover is not the right size or something like that. But so.

36:02.80
Bruce Anthony
Yeah, and and it and it publishes.

36:12.92
Bruce Anthony
Okay.

36:16.22
Shanti Hershenson
Everyone can publish a book but not everyone can like publish a successful book and really the difference is is like you know you have to do all the marketing on your own you have to be able to like reach out to book reviewers and interviewers and you have to be able to do advertising and that's the tricky part of Self-p publishing.

36:20.19
Bruce Anthony
Up. Yeah yeah.

36:32.17
Bruce Anthony
And and so that okay, so for you because you've finally you've gotten. You've gotten a groover of things right? like you know you've you've done I forgot what the number was you said there was 16 published books but written 30 so sixteen published books.

36:44.13
Shanti Hershenson
Yeah.

36:50.58
Bruce Anthony
So now you've already you know the the system of how to go from a to z to formulating the idea to getting it published with all of the marketing and the cover art and all that other stuff. But. How hard is that process that very first time that you did that.

37:10.56
Shanti Hershenson
Oh my gosh. It was so with the first like like book I published. It's very complicated because by um, lock which is the first book I wrote wasn't the first book I published I had this novella called the um like chronicles of a section the nightmare of Zaldela It's a series of Novellas called the chronicles of xola.

37:17.45
Bruce Anthony
He.

37:26.94
Shanti Hershenson
And that was my first you know book that was doing it all on my own and honestly in some ways. It's really hard in many ways. It's not because when you have no idea what you're doing. It's in some ways easier because just random stuff so I didn't have a marketing plan at all I didn't know what I was doing I was just like throw it on Amazon promote it.

37:35.75
Bruce Anthony
Right.

37:45.88
Shanti Hershenson
And then slowly I started being really able to like promote the book and I started learning about like newsletter promotions and advertising but it was a slow process and now I'd say with like my current books. It's in some ways much easier and it's in some ways much harder because.

37:52.76
Bruce Anthony
Um.

38:00.91
Bruce Anthony
Um.

38:01.70
Shanti Hershenson
Now I Really know how elaborate it is and I have to come up with these really detailed marketing plans and like do all the budgeting and figure out you know, like what needs to happen before a certain dates and it's a lot more.

38:07.40
Bruce Anthony
Um.

38:12.60
Bruce Anthony
Right.

38:16.19
Shanti Hershenson
But and also in some in a completely different way. It's a lot easier now that I have it all written out I don't need to completely scramble to like get everything to work.

38:22.10
Bruce Anthony
You know I'm always thinking of I'm an entrepreneur at heart and I'm always thinking of ways to create business What you're describing is you can sell yourself as a publisher in other words, you can. Somebody could come to you say I have this book I don't know how to to promote it to market it to to sell it the price point and you could charge people I can a consultant right? An agency like you you and you're building this knowledge at such a young age. The.

38:51.45
Shanti Hershenson
Yeah.

38:59.20
Bruce Anthony
The world is your oyster you can literally do whatever you want in the literary and literary world because you started so young and you're doing it all yourself I I just think this is just really really remarkable. You should really really be proud of yourself because to be 16 years old and to be doing all of this is just.

39:09.32
Shanti Hershenson
Thank you.

39:18.70
Bruce Anthony
Absolutely Commendable. Um I kind of want to go back to bullying and you you made it personal and you talk about it a lot and and it's affecting people is this something that you feel like you're going to continue to go down this path. As far as writing about bullying and personal stuff because it touches people.

39:44.50
Shanti Hershenson
I Think definitely I'm not sure entirely about bullying the book I'm writing right now is also sort sort of about bullying and about how schools handle it. But definitely I do love writing you know, personal books and on the other hand I do love writing the really fun like action like you know, kind of violent books. So.

40:00.32
Bruce Anthony
Um.

40:03.79
Shanti Hershenson
We we will see because you know what I find is like I write you know one of those and then I write like a personal book and I kind of almost alternate. So I think I'm definitely going to continue doing both but I do really enjoy writing these personal books I have actually I'm planning like a memoir about something completely different. So I'm thinking that's something that I might do.

40:11.46
Bruce Anthony
Um.

40:21.84
Shanti Hershenson
Because always you know connecting with people on you know, a more like relatable level is always fun than it's connecting with people through like action, packed books with aliens and robots. But even still you know I do enjoy writing those books too and I don't think I'm ever going to stop writing those.

40:26.20
Bruce Anthony
I.

40:36.69
Bruce Anthony
So you wrote you said early, you wrote the screenplay and and I think that's that's a fantastic movie I I want that to get done. What is what is the long goal here. Is it to continue to be an author is it to write screenplays and develop movies. Is this something that you're thinking about in college. What are what are what is what is your? What are your plans for the next few years as you get out of high school and move on into I guess they call it adulthood but you seem pretty adult already but technically 18 is adulthood.

41:10.16
Shanti Hershenson
Think you.

41:13.66
Bruce Anthony
Um, so what is the plan for the next few years of what you want to do as far as your writing and your career.

41:18.42
Shanti Hershenson
I Definitely want to do a little bit of everything when it comes to writing I did really enjoy writing the screenplay so that book Helipeds in heaven like I wrote it as a screenplay and that was a lot of fun. But then honestly I had more fun turning it into a novel but now I have both but there's like the novel is so much better.

41:28.86
Bruce Anthony
Um.

41:34.13
Bruce Anthony
Um.

41:36.16
Shanti Hershenson
But I do still think like even though like I write better novels than I do screenplays like screenwriting is definitely something that I'd be interested in I think you know it can be helpful to like write a screenplay version of a book and you know the novel version.

41:47.30
Bruce Anthony
In.

41:49.29
Shanti Hershenson
And you know potentially like if I can become a screenwriter when I'm older and actually you know see my work at the big screen like that would be amazing.

41:56.81
Bruce Anthony
So what is the difference between there's obviously a difference but what is the difference in writing between writing a novel and writing a screenplay because they are different um was watching a Tv show. And it was based on the Godfather Mario Poozo wrote the godfather the novel but he had to adapt adapt it to a screenplay and it's a different form of writing so can you explain to the audience how that different form of writing affects a novel in the screenplay.

42:21.61
Shanti Hershenson
Yeah, so a screenplay is very just straightforward. It's you know you have to show everything you can't just or I guess you kind of have to s you you more have to show it than you have to tell what's that the same with writing novels. But it's all visual.

42:31.47
Bruce Anthony
Um.

42:38.51
Bruce Anthony
Oh.

42:40.24
Shanti Hershenson
You have to show the character's emotion through their facial expressions. You can't just write. You know this character is sad and they're thinking this. So it's all very visual and it's a lot quicker. You know screenplays are like mostly dialogue and then a little bit of you know description when you're describing like ah but even actually not really.

42:50.00
Bruce Anthony
Um, right.

42:58.39
Bruce Anthony
Okay, um.

42:58.56
Shanti Hershenson
Like I found that you know most of the description. You know that's the job of the set designer. So. It's like all dialogue where a novel is a lot more internal. A lot of the time where you can really go into the characters like thoughts. As opposed to having to show them and that was a real challenge when I was writing the screenplay for helipads in heaven because what I had the character do is I had the character to do a voiceover and like talk about things Otherwise I had no way to show. It was like what was you know how she connected to any of the places but it still it worked and then when I was turning that into a novel which is you know now the published version like.

43:22.70
Bruce Anthony
Um, right.

43:31.13
Shanti Hershenson
I Just you know had it is like regular description.

43:33.80
Bruce Anthony
So what can my audience expect from you as far as the next grouping of books that are there come out. You said you're working on 1 right now. What? What is the latest book that's released right now and what are you working on now you don't have to give us all the the plot points. We're not going to do that. But just an idea of what's coming down the pipeline.

43:53.15
Shanti Hershenson
So my most recent book is technically. It's a crossover between Biome lock and the chronicles ofydelan but that's not one of my major releases so still technically like my most recent like big book is helippez in heaven but upcoming. I'd say you can expect a lot of books that are similar to my old stuff I have a book coming out on April Twenty ninth and it's gonna be number 17 it's called little green man I actually wrote it during the summer of eighth and ninth grade so I wrote it when I was 14 but I just you know just got around to it and that's a.

44:18.70
Bruce Anthony
Okay, okay.

44:24.64
Shanti Hershenson
Obviously it has aliens but it's more of a mystery and it has a lot more like high school and it's more realistic than like my crazy action pack books like it's a lot more grounded but there's aliens and then after that I'm.

44:34.46
Bruce Anthony
Okay, there's aliens right.

44:40.71
Shanti Hershenson
Going to release hopefully the final 2 books in the never dying series. So 2024 is ah going to be a year for a lot of older books and a lot of like older series. But it's also like you know.

44:48.98
Bruce Anthony
Hey look.

44:54.39
Shanti Hershenson
Lot of action. A lot of fun and in there somewhere I'm hopefully going to release some more like personal realistic like memoirs and things as well and maybe poetry.

45:01.38
Bruce Anthony
Okay, cool hey look especially when the poetry that you're writing is so deep so personal and touching so many people I would definitely say I would definitely encourage you to keep doing that. Um is there. Any.

45:11.98
Shanti Hershenson
Thank you.

45:16.30
Bruce Anthony
Thing that you want to leave my audience with that. You've learned throughout the process of becoming this young author.

45:22.80
Shanti Hershenson
Yeah, so a really big tip of mine. It's kind of cliche. It's kind of corny but don't let your age get in the way and this not only applies to teenagers but it applies to adults because you know there are a lot of adults who are like oh I'm too old to write a book I should have written it when I was younger you know.

45:29.38
Bruce Anthony
Are.

45:41.50
Shanti Hershenson
You're never too old or too young to write a book and you know on the other hand there are teenagers that are like oh you know I'm too young I'm just going to do this when I'm older. But if I can do it. You can't do.

45:48.62
Bruce Anthony
I Love that I Love that.? Thank you so much for coming on the show I've really really enjoyed this conversation and as I said to everybody we're gonna put the website in the descriptions. Go check out her books or books are for everybody. They're not just for teenagers thererefore everybody and this is a this is a star but is gonna be a superstar you guys gonna want to get on the bandwagon I mean we jumping in it in the middle we didn't jump on it early. We jumping in the middle. But. Gotta get on this Bandwagon. So. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Absolutely.

46:25.44
Shanti Hershenson
Thank you for having me.