"Navigating the Juvenile Justice System and Building Better Futures for At-Risk Youth"

bruce_anthony:
On today's episode I'll be interviewing a

new rock. Well, he's a social worker out in
Los Angeles. We're going to be talking about

juvenile justice, the foster care system as
well as parenting. But first things first,

So a little background on my guest today.
Good new rocks. Well, he's a social worker

in Los Angeles. He's been Los Angeles. He
grew up in Los Angeles. Are. He's also a hip

hop artist, worked for the law center of Children's
Loss Center, The children's So the little

background on my guest today. Good new rocks.
Well, he's He's a social worker, worked at

the Children's Loss Center Children's Loss.
Enter Poetry jam, So a little bit about to,

So a little bit about Gene Rockwell and his
background once again, Like I said earlier,

S a social worker in Los Angeles. He's also
a hip hop artist. He's been on H B. Documentaris

Foster, He's also been in the hip hop poetry
jam on Bo. He's social worker from the Children's

Law center in Los Angeles, Numerous over fifteen
years of working with Inter City Youth and

the Juvenile Justice System Falstar care system.
He also has a Certification and let me pull

this up so that so that get this right certification
and non violent parent education. So the things

that were going to be talking about today
are just kids right, like we in a previous

podcast, I spoke to a doctor about the abortion
laws and lot of arguments that people that

are pro life, and I'm not putting new in any
of this conversation as far as Pro life or

Pro choice, But I'm just talking about the
pro life people. A lot of instances to people

that say well that the pro life they say,
An't you give the child up for adoption, And

I gave some statistics before about kids and
false ter care system? Um, and I mean without

a backbone without a structure, how are we
supposed to raise this kid, especially when

Society really isn't helping them, And it
would be interesting talking to Ane about

this because he's in the system. He's dealing
with the kids that are in the juvenile holes

that are in the faster car system, and he
has a very unique perspective because he grew

up in the inter city of Los Angeles, so I'm
really excited to interview him to get some

of his insight and I think that we could learn
a lot from non vi Parenting. I know I grew

up in the house O. My parents weren't violent.
Let me be clear. my parents were not violent,

but I did give weapons. you know, I joke.
I call him beatings, but really honestly was

not getting beat as a child. I got weapons.
I got weapons as a kid, so it's interesting.

It will be interesting to hear his philosophy
and certification to background on non violent

parenting, but without further ado, Here's
the interview. It was really interesting interview

and Gane gave a lot of insight into parenting
Like that. That conversation we started off

with juvenile juvenile hole, like learning
what juvenile holes are and learning how these

kids and foster care system and the recidicism
of the I said, Right this time, the reciticism

of foster kids and how sometimes they age
out and they end up in jail because they don't

have that structure in that background, and
then going to parenting, And one of the things

that I'll say about that interview and speaking
with a new. I think it's important to pull

from different communities and I'm not apparent.
I can't speak to raising kids, but if I did

have kids, I would think the best way to raise
kids, and each kid, like I said earlier is

individual. What works for one kid won't work
for another kid. You know some kids You can

tell, stop and explain it to him, and that
will be good enough, and other kids just won't

work. So disciplining and raising and building
structure with each kid is going to be different,

but I feel like that we can pull from each
one of the communities right. Cook it up like

a pot of gumbo. We take a little bit of hare,
we take a little bit of hair. we take a little

bit of their. Just like as Gondo as an artist.
Right and the notes? What note? One note may

work in this particular song, but might not
work In this particular song. I think it's

important for us to learn from each other
to learn. Okay. This worked for you for your

kids. I know it's a different situation. Let
me see if it can be applied here. This didn't

work or it did work, but not to the degree
of which I thought it would or I had to change

up something. It's interesting. We, as a people.
If we listen and speak to each other, we can

really learn from one another and continually
grow. That's the purpose of genera Ation.

Right as gone, brought it up earlier. Like
we learned from our parents. We learned parenting

from our parents. The hope is is that we'll
see how they raised us and well say okay.

This worked and this didn't work. I want to
keep this. I want to take this out right and

then employed that on our kids and then our
kids do the same thing. So at a certain point

like a math problem, you know, Remember long
division, you Show your work and long division

had all these different steps to finally get
to the answer. Same thing like you, Keep taking

that, those those questions and those answers
and those variables and it's just like long

division, and with each generation you get
closer and closer to the answer and answer

might be different for every child. It will
be different for every child because the variables

changed, but we could take that and we can
learn from one another and better so that

each generation gets bet And better and better
Because it is that what we want in that what

we strive for to continuously evolve continuously
get better. So I thought that was really interested

in a lot of the news thought processes and
ideology and learn something. You should have

learned something. Hopefully you learned something.
but on that note, I hope you enjoyed this

episode and I'll see you next time, but until
then, hallo.

bruce_anthony:
Alright, just checking these audio levels.

Can you say something for me real fast?

gaknew_roxwel:
Yep, my check.

bruce_anthony:
You got it. Were good to go. All right. Gonna

be gin in five, four, three, Welcome and I'm
here with a new rock. Well, we're here talking

about the juvenile justice system and foster
her. gone.

gaknew_roxwel:
Yes,

bruce_anthony:
welcome to the show, Brother.

gaknew_roxwel:
thank you. Glad to be here.

bruce_anthony:
I'm glad to have you here. So one of the first

questions I wanted to jump right into is can
you tell me about your background and how

you became interested in social work and non
violent parenting education? Because that's

something I think is really really important
because I know, for me I grew up, I got them

weapons right. I got them weapons,

gaknew_roxwel:
Rye.

bruce_anthony:
and most people in my generation got them

weapons.

gaknew_roxwel:
Right.

bruce_anthony:
But I'm interested to know about what non

violent parent parent in education is. So
if you could just give me a little background

and how you got interested in all that,

gaknew_roxwel:
Well, Yeah, I got them weapons to.

bruce_anthony:
Most most of us did,

gaknew_roxwel:
Um.

bruce_anthony:
most of

gaknew_roxwel:
I

bruce_anthony:
us

gaknew_roxwel:
mean,

bruce_anthony:
did.

gaknew_roxwel:
you know I'm a kid from from Los Angeles during,

like the crack epidemic epidemic. You know

bruce_anthony:
Hm,

gaknew_roxwel:
what I mean. So

bruce_anthony:
right.

gaknew_roxwel:
um, growing up in the eighties or whatever?

Um, So you know, I saw a lot as a hip hop
artists. A lot of that was in my music from

my environment. What I saw came at it. more
of the approach of like a native tong, Um,

or like Public enemy. like that approach right.
So in terms of my background, Um, I have a

hilltop background because I grew up with
Hippo, so

bruce_anthony:
Right.

gaknew_roxwel:
I was wrapping from being a teen agent. M.

That moved in to me doing spoken word when
kind of the jiggy era took over.

bruce_anthony:
Oh,

gaknew_roxwel:
Um,

bruce_anthony:
get jiggy with it.

gaknew_roxwel:
Yeah, I wasn't really

bruce_anthony:
Okay.

gaknew_roxwel:
getting Jgywited

bruce_anthony:
Okay, now I get you know when you're talking

about you doing public endive, I didn't imagine
you was out here doing that. Get jiggy with

it.

gaknew_roxwel:
Right, so I mean, I would say, kind of the

content of Public Enemy, but the flavor of
Like Tribe Called Quests kind of think,

bruce_anthony:
Okay, all

gaknew_roxwel:
but

bruce_anthony:
right,

gaknew_roxwel:
however it goes, I moved in to the poetry

scene because you know the hip op scene really
wasn't home anymore like you, and have people

bruce_anthony:
M,

gaknew_roxwel:
really listen in the lyrics like that, But

then on the poetry scene, it's a lot of activists
in the store And where it saying, You know,

So I was invited to work with some youth at
a juvenile hall while on a poach scene I went

out, spoke with a youth and I really like
Um in awaking something. and you know, as

poets I feel like we're often on the Salt
box, Um, giving critique on society and talking

about the systems in the school system, And
you know we're always complaining about everything

in society, right, Um,

bruce_anthony:
Exactly,

gaknew_roxwel:
it's like the only experience I had was as

a kid growing up, and just like you know,
the hearsay, you don't really have

bruce_anthony:
Hm,

gaknew_roxwel:
hands on. Um, it's hands on experience, but

it is small. Right is very personal

bruce_anthony:
Right,

gaknew_roxwel:
once.

bruce_anthony:
Hm,

gaknew_roxwel:
Um. So long story short, I started was a regular

thing, Me going to the Juvanalhols, working
with the youth, and even starting after school

programs and stuff like that, using Wrap and
spoken word as a platform to connect with

the youth, and kind of doing like, Um, giving
them outlets so they could express themselves

in a different way in a more creative way.
And then I met an attorney that worked that

children's law firm, which is where I then
started working. She was like men. You will

be really good to work for us because we need
investigators that can connect with the youth.

And I had a nack for building with a youth.
Kind of hip hop keeps you youthful, you know,

bruce_anthony:
Right,

gaknew_roxwel:
So

bruce_anthony:
exactly

gaknew_roxwel:
I ended up working for them and and did that

for fifteen years. At first I was just a investigator
and but then that moved in to me, working

with a unit we call a care unit, which is
a

bruce_anthony:
Hm.

gaknew_roxwel:
specialized unit that works with the youth

who are in foster care, but also have juvenal
justice cases, so their

bruce_anthony:
Okay,

gaknew_roxwel:
kids on probation, and my job To ment, or

them to try to help them get off of probation
Off an signs, There's a million hurtles and

obstacles in a way, Because they're just giving
a list from the judge of terms of probation

how they need to change

bruce_anthony:
Right,

gaknew_roxwel:
their life around. But just because somebody

bruce_anthony:
Hm,

gaknew_roxwel:
tells you you need to make these changes doesn't

mean you agree with the changes, and it doesn't
mean that you even have the drive to make

the changes. you know, Like some

bruce_anthony:
Or the

gaknew_roxwel:
hapinheway,

bruce_anthony:
wherewithal

gaknew_roxwel:
you said

bruce_anthony:
or the wherewithal, the know how to even go

gaknew_roxwel:
Right,

bruce_anthony:
about making those type of changes.

gaknew_roxwel:
especially

bruce_anthony:
Yeah,

gaknew_roxwel:
if you come from a space where your parents

that, I mean their foster youth. So their
parents

bruce_anthony:
Right,

gaknew_roxwel:
have their own list that a judge

bruce_anthony:
Exactly,

gaknew_roxwel:
gave them of changes that they need to do

to get their kids back So you know, we often
our parents thresholds, can often times become

our thresholds, especially as a teen ager,

bruce_anthony:
M.

gaknew_roxwel:
Like

bruce_anthony:
Hm,

gaknew_roxwel:
I, I'm not better than my my dad is or my

mom. is, you know? So Um,

bruce_anthony:
Hm,

gaknew_roxwel:
that's kind of what got me into, You know,

the foster care system working in that.

bruce_anthony:
If you can break down for me, what exactly

is a juvenile hall? Is that? is that what
they call Kitty prison?

gaknew_roxwel:
Yeah,

bruce_anthony:
or that's exactly what it is? So

gaknew_roxwel:
that

bruce_anthony:
they just

gaknew_roxwel:
that's yeah. that's its kid.

bruce_anthony:
Okay

gaknew_roxwel:
jail.

bruce_anthony:
this kid jail,

gaknew_roxwel:
Yeah,

bruce_anthony:
and I've heard stories that there isn't too

much difference. The violence might be a little
bit more extreme, but it's not too much difference.

As far as the interaction between the juveniles
as compared to like inmates in prison. Is

that true or is that false?

gaknew_roxwel:
Um, man, it's hard to say. I can't like completely

say it's false. Honestly,

bruce_anthony:
Hm,

gaknew_roxwel:
I have very limited, like I've never been

to jail before,

bruce_anthony:
Right, right, right,

gaknew_roxwel:
so, but I have like I've had had a couple

of clients who ended up once they turned eighteen.
Unfortunately they got in trouble again and

ended up going to county, And so I went to
visit the county and it's a way different

like It's just okay just to give it some perspective
when you're in Juvanalhol, The youngest kid

I saw in Juvanaulhol was like twelve turning
thirteen, and even when they're twelve, they

try to kind of keep them away from the other
kids. Um,

bruce_anthony:
Hm,

gaknew_roxwel:
so from thirteen to eighteen, this was like

in the halls, which you know, it's a big difference
that thirteen year old to an eighteen year

old,

bruce_anthony:
Right,

gaknew_roxwel:
But for one the hall is is not like. Um, it's

not a permanent placement kind of thing, so
Supposed to be temporary. So that's like

bruce_anthony:
Okay,

gaknew_roxwel:
when they get arrested and they go in to the

halls and they're supposed to only being there
like a couple of weeks may be a month. While

the judicial system is trying to find placement,
which, dependent on their situation could

be a group home. It could be home. It could
be a foster home. It could be Camp Camp is

more of a is, kind of like adult penitentiary,
which is kind of like your.

bruce_anthony:
M,

gaknew_roxwel:
sentenced to be a camp. You're not sentenced

bruce_anthony:
Hm,

gaknew_roxwel:
to be at Juvinouhol. So

bruce_anthony:
Okay,

gaknew_roxwel:
Um,

bruce_anthony:
so juvenile

gaknew_roxwel:
so

bruce_anthony:
Hal is like a holding.

gaknew_roxwel:
T's

bruce_anthony:
It's

gaknew_roxwel:
like

bruce_anthony:
a.

gaknew_roxwel:
county

bruce_anthony:
It's a

gaknew_roxwel:
jail.

bruce_anthony:
long time

gaknew_roxwel:
Like

bruce_anthony:
holding sale.

gaknew_roxwel:
you know,

bruce_anthony:
Yeah,

gaknew_roxwel:
people get arrested. They go to the county,

but then they're

bruce_anthony:
Hm.

gaknew_roxwel:
in account. Well and I completely like that

because you know it's you could be in county
jail for some years, but

bruce_anthony:
Yeah, yeah,

gaknew_roxwel:
M and I've had youth who I've worked with

who've been in the host for like a year, but
for those youth is kind of a situation of.

They're often times they run away a lot when
they're on the outs, or It's kind of circumstantial

to where or they've been in and out. Er lot.
Um, and so then the judge is so called, scared

for them to be like in a foster home, were
group home because they think they're going

to run away, or it's all types of different
situations. But for the most part the halls

is supposed to be a temporary.

bruce_anthony:
Okay,

gaknew_roxwel:
Oh, and and so just to give that perspective

how I was saying, But then you got the difference
of an eighteen old in a forty five year old

with thirty five

bruce_anthony:
Right,

gaknew_roxwel:
year old, that's been

bruce_anthony:
yeah,

gaknew_roxwel:
doing nothing but working out for the past

five years in the yard, and it's fresh.

bruce_anthony:
Hm.

gaknew_roxwel:
New eighteen year old comes in. That's a whole

different environment.

bruce_anthony:
The different ball game. Okay, yeah, no, I

get what you're saying. It's you brought up
how a couple of your clients got out of the

J V halls right, but turned eighteen and got
into trouble and went to county. So what are

some of the challenges you faced with your
work? That? that's an example of a challenge

where you have. What is it? Where you? where
you keep where you're going back in the system.

gaknew_roxwel:
Oh recipivism.

bruce_anthony:
Citivism right like Jess. I should have known

that where recite

gaknew_roxwel:
No,

bruce_anthony:
recigicism. Yeah,

gaknew_roxwel:
it's

bruce_anthony:
I

gaknew_roxwel:
a

bruce_anthony:
got

gaknew_roxwel:
trick.

bruce_anthony:
a speech in Peter. So you have those type

of situations? What are some of the other
challenges with work? And how often are these

kids going back into the system and then when
they age out, they're going in the county,

gaknew_roxwel:
Um, I mean, it's really unfortunate, right

like My experience is all with youth who are
and false to care. M. So it's a little different

than say kid that's in their home and they're
not in false to care. Often times I have a

lot more support. they, um, it's a bit more
leniency. You know, because the judge is like.

Well, you're going home to Dad. You're going
home to my. All right. You did this one thing.

You are still in candy. or you know, still
Jean's from the store. you know, Slap on the

risk parents get on that. but for foster you,
there is no parents know that you know,

bruce_anthony:
Right,

gaknew_roxwel:
and oftentimes the cycles that they're they're

in When they get to this point, there's been
years of Um, No structure, you know, not even

to get on like they've probably experienced
neglect. They likely experienced some type

of abuse that landed them in the foster In
the first place. So there's already like trauma.

you know, even a trauma of being taken away
from your family, which is not just your family,

your friends at school, your friends in your
neighborhood. Um, it's just a lot of trauma

involved when you're a foster youth. Often
in times to have youth who are running away

from the placement because they just want
to be at home. So

bruce_anthony:
M,

gaknew_roxwel:
I have you who run away and go like people,

be with a parent, a parent who they're not
supposed to be with, Because you know

bruce_anthony:
Right,

gaknew_roxwel:
the courts have taken them, so the parent

is like hiding them.

bruce_anthony:
Right, So the kid's been removed from the

home, been placed in the foster home, but
for whatever reason, and it could be a variety

of different reasons,

gaknew_roxwel:
Yeah,

bruce_anthony:
but lets you say, one of the simple reasons

is they just miss their mom and dad. They'll
run away from that foster home and go back

home, and that parent will obviously take
them back in and try to hide them.

gaknew_roxwel:
Yeah, I mean, family

bruce_anthony:
Wow,

gaknew_roxwel:
is family right, like

bruce_anthony:
exactly

gaknew_roxwel:
first of all our community, like the system

is the enemy right. And

bruce_anthony:
Hm,

gaknew_roxwel:
if you just think about people in general,

the vast majority of people, Um, don't own
the crack right like we always somebody else

is doing something and we're like, Oh, well,
I do that, Me saying well, I do that is me

saying. Oh, it's not that bad because I do

bruce_anthony:
Right,

gaknew_roxwel:
it, too. You know what I mean.

bruce_anthony:
exactly,

gaknew_roxwel:
So

bruce_anthony:
yeah,

gaknew_roxwel:
even the reasons that the youth might be If

Forster care could be abused, but the family
doesn't see it as abuse. The kid doesn't

bruce_anthony:
M

gaknew_roxwel:
because the kid has lived like that all their

lives. the parent

bruce_anthony:
Right,

gaknew_roxwel:
doesn't because they're like. Well, this is

how I grew up and this is

bruce_anthony:
Exactly

gaknew_roxwel:
what we do. So they don't see it the way that

the system sees, but then the public will
see it like. What do you do like? You can't

beat that kid like that or you can't. That's
abuse of what you're doing. So really? what

T me into the whole like a now violent parentsing
thing, How you were saying is because you

know how they say that the school system is
antiquated, but which is not really, Because

I've worked as a teacher, but our community
is antiquated. We think about it like we don't

go to school to learn how to become parents.
So where do we learn to be parents? We learn

to be parents.

bruce_anthony:
From

gaknew_roxwel:
By

bruce_anthony:
our

gaknew_roxwel:
the

bruce_anthony:
parents.

gaknew_roxwel:
way that we were raised right,

bruce_anthony:
Yes,

gaknew_roxwel:
we might tweak that A little bit, but for

the most part, Um, our communities function
on this old world like we're not reading books,

Psychology and we're not reading all of this
stuff. That's

bruce_anthony:
No, we're not

gaknew_roxwel:
what's causing the system to evolve. And so

bruce_anthony:
M

gaknew_roxwel:
you got all these systems That's judging the

public, and there there judging them with
information. that's based on all these studies

that are constant Going on month after month,
year after year. things are changing right

like

bruce_anthony:
Evolving.

gaknew_roxwel:
this are evolving and

bruce_anthony:
Hm,

gaknew_roxwel:
they feel like they have a better understanding

of what trauma is and what you know abuse
is, and what neglect is, and the effects that

it has. We're not doing those studies and
in the house, So

bruce_anthony:
Hm,

gaknew_roxwel:
you know, there's this gap and me being from

the community and me working in in the foster
care system. Um. I have an issue with this

this gap, you know, Um, and mainly because
I feel like, Um, What I saw a lot was the

judge. when the youth is taken in a foster
care, The judge always mandates therapy that

the youth received therapy because they've
experienced this abuse, and how can they go

back into society in a healthy way and function
without tending to the trauma Abuse and neglect

that they receive. But then I look at my community
like the black community. For hundreds of

years, we've received trauma and abuse in
this

bruce_anthony:
Right,

gaknew_roxwel:
country as a as a people, and there's never

been a therapeutic approach to help us right
to help us go

bruce_anthony:
This is

gaknew_roxwel:
into

bruce_anthony:
true.

gaknew_roxwel:
many extreme society and function. We, just

by a miracle, the grace of God have been able
to like function for the most part. Yeah,

bruce_anthony:
Navigate

gaknew_roxwel:
there's

bruce_anthony:
our way

gaknew_roxwel:
some

bruce_anthony:
through her

gaknew_roxwel:
this function, but There's a lot of us who

are like becoming successful too. you know.

bruce_anthony:
Exactly.

gaknew_roxwel:
Um, and so with that I began to view the foster

care system as like there. That's their means
of giving us therapy Like that's their means

of of helping us heal our families, Is forcing
us in the foster care and then we receive

therapy through the judges mandate. that's
what's supposed

bruce_anthony:
Hm.

gaknew_roxwel:
to help our community. Um, I got an issue

with that, so that's what pushed me And to
um, you know, becoming certified to do the

parents and classes

bruce_anthony:
So that's interesting. What are some of the

strategies you use in the non violent parenting
And

gaknew_roxwel:
Well,

bruce_anthony:
how is it? How is it received by parents?

Because I would imagine certain generations
like me and my sister often talk about the

generation Generation X, millennial and Generation
Z and generation Z own their mental health

right,

gaknew_roxwel:
M.

bruce_anthony:
millennials, Younger millennials own that

mental health and getting therapy. But older
men Adios and generation acts and boomers.

They're not here for it. they say, pray on
it and pray on it. You know, I believe in

the Lord, but I also believe Hey, the Lord
gave us therapy to help better ourselves,

So that reception in these communities from
maybe through the different generations, how

is that received? Is it received well? Is
it not received Well? Who's receiving it well,

and who's not receiving it well?

gaknew_roxwel:
Well, I think honestly, I think the park of

me during the classes is that I'm culturally
sensitive, right because

bruce_anthony:
M.

gaknew_roxwel:
I grew up in it.

bruce_anthony:
Hm.

gaknew_roxwel:
I grew up in it, and I mean, I just I have

so many opinions about even everything that
you, you know, just said right, because when

we think about the therapy that we're going
to, an, we're receiving and the mental health

that were open. to What lens is that coming
from? That's not coming from a culturally

sensitive, lends from us. You know what I
mean like that.

bruce_anthony:
Well, sometimes you know we have therapist.

We, we have black therapists That are that
are out there given

gaknew_roxwel:
Yeah, but they

bruce_anthony:
given

gaknew_roxwel:
go to

bruce_anthony:
us

gaknew_roxwel:
school.

bruce_anthony:
therapy.

gaknew_roxwel:
They go to school to learn like everything

that the black therapy and I'm not saying
nothing against therapy. I'm not against therapy.

That's not where I'm coming from, but I'm
just coming from. We're going to an academic.

We're going to academic to learn the information
that's being provided by what studies like,

studies been done by who like. Because

bruce_anthony:
Oh, so I see what you're saying

gaknew_roxwel:
Like

bruce_anthony:
that.

gaknew_roxwel:
there's a criminalization of our culture and

I'm not saying

bruce_anthony:
Yes,

gaknew_roxwel:
everything in black culture is great. right.

We have some things that we need to attend
to. Um,

bruce_anthony:
Exactly yes,

gaknew_roxwel:
but everything ain't bad either,

bruce_anthony:
True,

gaknew_roxwel:
And there's like this perception. Now what

I'm seeing is like this whole new generation.
It's a swinging pentionum right, so we go

from one extreme to the other extreme, and
on the other extreme is like everything that

The ways of our our grandparents was was so
terrible, but it. not all of

bruce_anthony:
You're

gaknew_roxwel:
it was

bruce_anthony:
talking about. As far as discipline

gaknew_roxwel:
I'm talking

bruce_anthony:
disciplining

gaknew_roxwel:
about as

bruce_anthony:
kids

gaknew_roxwel:
far as structure. like

bruce_anthony:
structure,

gaknew_roxwel:
a lot

bruce_anthony:
Okay,

gaknew_roxwel:
of when I'm seeing now is like a lack of structure

and over all right. So the training you know,
I'm certified as a trimelform. Now I'm finding

parent in structure, because that's the the
certification in a program that I went to

right.

bruce_anthony:
Hm,

gaknew_roxwel:
But that doesn't mean that I'm in full agreement

with their pro Just because Um, they come
from the lines that we also are judge mental

of right. Because when we were growing up
and we saw their kids in the market running

the muck and they're just like Oh, no, getting
liner. You're not going to get into candy.

we look at like dude, your kids is running
over you

bruce_anthony:
Hm,

gaknew_roxwel:
like that's the lens that's now telling us

to be more like them. Um,

bruce_anthony:
M,

gaknew_roxwel:
so I just see a lot of like. It's just a lack

of structure. What I always try to tell young
parents. Like the structure comes from like

infancy. Often times we wait to the youth
that to the baby becomes a tatler, And it's

like two years old and suddenly getting in
to stuff, and it's

bruce_anthony:
Hm,

gaknew_roxwel:
like you're yelling across the room. Hey,

stop that and it's kind of like after the
point right, like if all I've had was freedom

to do whatever I want to, And now you want
to tell me? I need to stop. like, Yeah,

bruce_anthony:
Well,

gaknew_roxwel:
We

bruce_anthony:
how

gaknew_roxwel:
don't

bruce_anthony:
do

gaknew_roxwel:
have

bruce_anthony:
you?

gaknew_roxwel:
us

bruce_anthony:
how

gaknew_roxwel:
a

bruce_anthony:
do

gaknew_roxwel:
situation.

bruce_anthony:
you get? How do you get a baby? How do you

develop structure for a baby? Are are

gaknew_roxwel:
Well,

bruce_anthony:
you talking about? like as a scheduling system?

Because I will say, when you say through the
lens of them, I do know and I'm not saying

this is a large majority, but I think it's
riginal, right. I do

gaknew_roxwel:
Hm,

bruce_anthony:
know a lot of white people that grew up getting

beaten

gaknew_roxwel:
Oh, yeah,

bruce_anthony:
Getting weapons getting

gaknew_roxwel:
yeah,

bruce_anthony:
the structure, so I don't want to. I don't

want to put it all on. You know that's how
white people will

gaknew_roxwel:
Well,

bruce_anthony:
discipline

gaknew_roxwel:
yeah, that's why

bruce_anthony:
their

gaknew_roxwel:
I didn't

bruce_anthony:
kids.

gaknew_roxwel:
say white necessarily, because

bruce_anthony:
Okay.

gaknew_roxwel:
we kind of got. I mean as a people, we kind

of inherited it from them. you know to me
like,

bruce_anthony:
Okay, I mean, yeah, because I've seen. I've

seen some of us

gaknew_roxwel:
Yeah,

bruce_anthony:
have kids

gaknew_roxwel:
yeah,

bruce_anthony:
running a muck.

gaknew_roxwel:
yeah,

bruce_anthony:
and I'm

gaknew_roxwel:
exactly

bruce_anthony:
like like

gaknew_roxwel:
exactly

bruce_anthony:
that's not us. That's

gaknew_roxwel:
exactly

bruce_anthony:
not us. You better. you

gaknew_roxwel:
xactly.

bruce_anthony:
better tighten them up.

gaknew_roxwel:
exactly so my, my bad. If it came off like

I'm talking about like black or white, I'm
not.

bruce_anthony:
Hm.

gaknew_roxwel:
I'm not talking about black and white as much

as I'm talking about, kind of like a paradin
of like

bruce_anthony:
Okay,

gaknew_roxwel:
one super passive and the other like super

aggressive, And I think

bruce_anthony:
Okay,

gaknew_roxwel:
we got

bruce_anthony:
I get

gaknew_roxwel:
to be

bruce_anthony:
you

gaknew_roxwel:
somewhere in the middle

bruce_anthony:
in the middle.

gaknew_roxwel:
like

bruce_anthony:
Got

gaknew_roxwel:
you got

bruce_anthony:
you?

gaknew_roxwel:
to be loving. but you got

bruce_anthony:
Hm.

gaknew_roxwel:
to provide Str. Sure like you gotta.

bruce_anthony:
Yeah,

gaknew_roxwel:
you got to hold the lines so like

bruce_anthony:
Hm

gaknew_roxwel:
like I have six kids, and of course, the younger

they get, the better the better of a parent
they get right.

bruce_anthony:
Yet,

gaknew_roxwel:
Because

bruce_anthony:
that's

gaknew_roxwel:
like

bruce_anthony:
that's

gaknew_roxwel:
you're learning along the way,

bruce_anthony:
so. there's a rule that something that I've

discussed on previous episodes. Whereas you
know me, my brother sister, I have a younger

brother, a younger sister. We all grew up
in the same household. We all had the same

parents, but we didn't have the same parents

gaknew_roxwel:
Right,

bruce_anthony:
Right because of the age difference, like

each child got a different parents. Not only
because of the age different that the gender,

there's the different personalities between

gaknew_roxwel:
Yeah,

bruce_anthony:
the three of us and

gaknew_roxwel:
yeah,

bruce_anthony:
how we respond to certain Disciplines

gaknew_roxwel:
yeah,

bruce_anthony:
and structures and things of that nature.

So that's interesting that you that you brought
that up,

gaknew_roxwel:
Well, yeah, so like for me when my kids just

like, even even when there little like and
I'll tell my my wife. like the one you wrote

is getting into something. I don't just say
hey, stop that and just like keep repeating,

stop that and expect her to stop right. like

bruce_anthony:
Hm,

gaknew_roxwel:
No, When I say hey, like don't get into that.

I'll go and I'll pick her up and I'll remove
her. So along with like me, verbally sane

is a physical. It's it's in And right, like
whatever they're doing is ending. So they're

learning that And that's me keeping a boundary,
and also like, Um, You know, often times his

parents we can let it go let it go. just ignoring
it until it gets too much. But that's not

fair to the kid because like you're not teaching
them that stop is stop right. Like you, it's

like okay, So when are you actually going
to? You know like you said, Stop, but I kept

going and you un tripping for an hour. I did
whatever I wanted to do.

bruce_anthony:
Right,

gaknew_roxwel:
You know, I got like way too loud and then

you came in there screaming and holler, And
I mean that's not Cool. It's not fair like

you know. So I think it's just classical conditioning
And that's part of the thing. Like are, the

average person is not studying psychology
so they don't really understand like classical

conditioning or operate conditioning like
it's training like. That's what discipline

is is just training like you have to beat
somebody in order to provide discipline. but

You know it's the same as adults, right if
there's certain things that you won't tolerate

and

bruce_anthony:
Right,

gaknew_roxwel:
somebody talk to a certain kind of way like

you, don't you? don't give them chances like
All right, Don't talk to alight. Now you shut

it down

bruce_anthony:
Respond

gaknew_roxwel:
right then.

bruce_anthony:
accordingly. Yeah,

gaknew_roxwel:
Yeah, and that's how they learn that they're

not going to speak to you like that, or they're
not going to treat you any kind of particular

way, And that's kind of the way that you have
to provide the structure in the home, and

soon you will see like It's not even going
to be some big tug of war Because what the

kids want is to know what I can and can't
do. Like

bruce_anthony:
That's interesting.

gaknew_roxwel:
if it's great area.

bruce_anthony:
Yeah,

gaknew_roxwel:
Where's

bruce_anthony:
that's

gaknew_roxwel:
the

bruce_anthony:
interesting

gaknew_roxwel:
safety?

bruce_anthony:
that you. That's interesting that you bring

that up. Because like I said earlier, me,
my brother sister are completely different.

Right. You could tell my sister something.
She might say something slick, but she's going

to follow the rules. My parents would tell
me, Don't do that and I would ask why, and

gaknew_roxwel:
You?

bruce_anthony:
they would say, because I said so to me, even

as a young kid. That wasn't a sufficient answer.
So because They would just tell me, because

I said so, I would go find out well, since
you won't tell me, I need to figure it out

and so for the longest time I got this label
is being disrespectful and hard headed

gaknew_roxwel:
M.

bruce_anthony:
and not listening. But as I got older, I just

told them I'm just curious. If you tell me.
Why If you explain something to me, Don't

touch the stove. Why Because I said so welimgonna
go touch stuff. Oh, because it's hot and I

could burn myself.

gaknew_roxwel:
Yeah,

bruce_anthony:
Now I know. But if you had told me that in

the first place,

gaknew_roxwel:
Yeah,

bruce_anthony:
I would have learned. So how do you take some

of these principles that you've studied and
that 

you've learned and you help parents build
these positive relationships with these children

when they've already gotten into the juvenile
holes and maybe been placed in false care.

Maybe the parents get the kids back. How do
you help those parents build those positive

relationships Because it's almost like you
got to start new again.

gaknew_roxwel:
Yeah, I mean, that's the. That's the the challenging

part about it and all, Honestly, like most
of the parents I've like done classes with

because I've only had my certification since
fifteen. And then you know, the whole Covid

thing kind of killed a lot of things. Most

bruce_anthony:
Don't

gaknew_roxwel:
of

bruce_anthony:
short

gaknew_roxwel:
the parents

bruce_anthony:
yourself,

gaknew_roxwel:
that

bruce_anthony:
Brother

gaknew_roxwel:
I

bruce_anthony:
Fifteen, don't short yourself, Brother Fifteen

was eight years ago. You've had it for eight
years. eight years. My

gaknew_roxwel:
Man.

bruce_anthony:
sister

gaknew_roxwel:
That's

bruce_anthony:
says

gaknew_roxwel:
crazy that that was that. I don't. it. Don't

feel like that long,

bruce_anthony:
You've had it for eight years, So

gaknew_roxwel:
right, But I've done a lot of parents in classes

with parents ing teams, so it was like and
that was an interesting thing to, also, because

it was often youth who were in foster care
who were then expecting kids. and so it became

a real, like powerful thing to The parents
and classes with them because

bruce_anthony:
As they're they're prepping.

gaknew_roxwel:
They're

bruce_anthony:
they're

gaknew_roxwel:
prepping,

bruce_anthony:
preparing for the

gaknew_roxwel:
and it's also causing them to consider some

things that their parents were going through
with

bruce_anthony:
Wow.

gaknew_roxwel:
them. It's like they're looking at it on both

sides of the of the the spectrum, you know,
and I've dealt with a lot of parents who have

like younger kids, like Tylers, and stuff
like that. I haven't. I can't think well know.

I've dealt with couple of older parents, but
their youth were And foster care like they

were just teen agers. Um, so it was already
some degree of of kind of having a hold on

the parent Same thing. And honestly, the way
I try to break it down is just relationship.

You know what I mean. it's not. I mean, it
happens to be a relationship between parent

and child, but at the end of the day is just
a relationship. Um,

bruce_anthony:
Hm,

gaknew_roxwel:
as a parent, You got to evaluate what it is

that you want for the out. Like, what are
the characteristics You're equipping a child

to become an adult? And

bruce_anthony:
Okay,

gaknew_roxwel:
when they become an adult, what characteristics

would you want them to have? Like What do
you feel they need to have in order to be

able to survive in this world? That becomes
a tricky thing because it plays on a. you

know we are All got our own different hang
ups right like some people

bruce_anthony:
Hm,

gaknew_roxwel:
live like me against the world kind of thing.

bruce_anthony:
Right,

gaknew_roxwel:
they want their kids to be able to fight.

You know what?

bruce_anthony:
Yeah, so how do they? How do you balance right

that that teaching them what they need what
they legitimately

gaknew_roxwel:
Hm,

bruce_anthony:
need, and just not teaching them what you

want them to have. I mean that's I don't have
any kids, So that's

gaknew_roxwel:
All right

bruce_anthony:
that's a. That's a concept that parents I

think struggle with because I have some friends,
have a lot of friends that have kids. and

it's almost like they're trying to raise little
versions of themselves.

gaknew_roxwel:
Always?

bruce_anthony:
What? That's not all? They don't always come

out like a little version

gaknew_roxwel:
Oh, they're

bruce_anthony:
of you.

gaknew_roxwel:
never going to

bruce_anthony:
Yeah,

gaknew_roxwel:
there

bruce_anthony:
so

gaknew_roxwel:
because they're individuals. I mean, you know

like, and that's the tricky part about it
is like even dealing with parents and dealing

with myself like, Um, I have to come to grips
with my children are not going to be little

versions of me. Um, although there is a a
natural thing, I believe, because if we go

like pre or domestication in American society
Like there's villages of people all over the

world, where like their village, they have
a certain culture in the way that they function

in the village. Right like that's

bruce_anthony:
Mhm,

gaknew_roxwel:
all based on. we've learned things, and we're

passing on to you what we've learned how to
navigate life.

bruce_anthony:
Right,

gaknew_roxwel:
That's

bruce_anthony:
okay,

gaknew_roxwel:
you know. That's a natural thing. Um, especially

in a lot of other countries where they're
not so Individualized. You know, in this country

where we're very like individualized, so we
have this like idea of you know is pushed

on our kids. I need to be free to be me, and
then they

bruce_anthony:
Hm,

gaknew_roxwel:
wind up in their early twenties. Like I don't

know who that is or what that is. I need to
go find it. You know.

bruce_anthony:
Hm,

gaknew_roxwel:
it becomes like a crazy thing. I mean, that's

a mental health situation in itself, Right

bruce_anthony:
Right,

gaknew_roxwel:
because we're taught to fight the direct Tion

of our elders, and then like go seek direction
from somewhere and then where do we go find

a direction from from society. So then we
just become society's child Because at the

end of the day there's no new thoughts on
the planet like there's nothing new under

the sun. as they say, you know. so either
we're taking on the ideas of those that we

come from, or we're taking on the ideas of
those and where Headed. Um,

bruce_anthony:
M,

gaknew_roxwel:
and you know, and often times where we're

headed has a bigger influence, right, like
media has a larger influence. So like in the

media feeds into the school system, We got
the school system telling our kids hew to

think. we got the cartoons telling our kids
how to think. We got the little T V shows

and the movies telling our kids how to think,
We got social media telling our kids how to

think So there's so many, Um, different entity
Pulling our kids culture Really is all just

culture, Um,

bruce_anthony:
Hm,

gaknew_roxwel:
pulling our kids away from the home culture

which you know, and and African culture before
we became African American. M. You know, our

culture was tied in to our people and where
we come from, not the people who are like

Cinch, O, the media and influence and telling
us where we need to go,

bruce_anthony:
Hm,

gaknew_roxwel:
And I just think that's something to think

about. I'm not. I'm not telling anybody to
think any certain kind of way, but that is

something to think about

bruce_anthony:
Yeah, I would say that A natural evolution

is to take what you've learned. take what's
passed down. generational knowledge. continue

on, but also take the growing knowledge outside
of that and try to incorporate it all together

to build your own path.

gaknew_roxwel:
Right,

bruce_anthony:
Uh, you got to have a structure

gaknew_roxwel:
Consciously.

bruce_anthony:
backbone. Something to fall on principle.

gaknew_roxwel:
Yeah,

bruce_anthony:
You got to have a principle, But

gaknew_roxwel:
yeah,

bruce_anthony:
there's nothing wrong with pulling different

ideas. Know Logical nort right, like growing
up, I'm going assume that were around the

same age growing up. We went from just having
a few channels. The antenna with the U. H.

F signal

gaknew_roxwel:
Right,

bruce_anthony:
right, you know, maybe we might get W. T.

V. Saturday night Wrestling with Rick Flair
and the Boys right to cable to H. Bo

gaknew_roxwel:
Yeah,

bruce_anthony:
to Internet, Right Records tapes. C Ds streams

now,

gaknew_roxwel:
Right,

bruce_anthony:
So things Evolving and we are getting smarter,

but we also do need to have that backbone
and that principle to stand on so that we

can still survive in this world, But there's

gaknew_roxwel:
Yeah,

bruce_anthony:
nothing wrong with taking on some of that

new knowledge. Picking the knowledge as we
go along. that helps us foster and grow.

gaknew_roxwel:
Well, yeah, I think you're dead on. Um, I

just think it has to be mindful, you know,

bruce_anthony:
Yes,

gaknew_roxwel:
like, and and so often, Um, we just, we kind

of can exist as sponges like We're just

bruce_anthony:
Hm,

gaknew_roxwel:
were. just Oh, this idea and that idea and

that idea. and especially if it serves like,
Um, as I said before, Like often times people

don't want to like own their thing right,
So it might

bruce_anthony:
Hm,

gaknew_roxwel:
be a situation of relation Ship rupture, and

in that we might take a moment to reflect
like Dan was that me was tripping, But then

soon after that will become No. I wasn't tripping
because such and such

bruce_anthony:
Yeah,

gaknew_roxwel:
anything

bruce_anthony:
we don't.

gaknew_roxwel:
that comes that will validate my No. I wasn't

tripping Because of such and such, we're going
to grab a whole to those things that validate

our denial of us owning the the thing in.

bruce_anthony:
Yeah,

gaknew_roxwel:
I think

bruce_anthony:
buying large, we don't. We don't like to admit

that we're wrong.

gaknew_roxwel:
No, because there's so much shame in it. You

got to think

bruce_anthony:
Yes,

gaknew_roxwel:
from small children given the wrong answer

and class felt embarrassing.

bruce_anthony:
M. Yes,

gaknew_roxwel:
So

bruce_anthony:
I never thought about like that. Yeah, you're

right. There's

gaknew_roxwel:
Who

bruce_anthony:
there

gaknew_roxwel:
wants

bruce_anthony:
is a

gaknew_roxwel:
to

bruce_anthony:
lot

gaknew_roxwel:
be

bruce_anthony:
of shame

gaknew_roxwel:
wrong?

bruce_anthony:
in that.

gaknew_roxwel:
You know what I mean Like, So being wrong

comes with so much shame, and being right
comes with so much pride that people will

bruce_anthony:
M

gaknew_roxwel:
fight tooth and nail to be right even when

bruce_anthony:
To

gaknew_roxwel:
they

bruce_anthony:
have that

gaknew_roxwel:
know

bruce_anthony:
pride.

gaknew_roxwel:
they're not right.

bruce_anthony:
Yeah, to have that pride. that makes a lot

of sense.

gaknew_roxwel:
You know what I mean,

bruce_anthony:
Yeah,

gaknew_roxwel:
so I think first we have to come to the point

of saying it's okay to be wrong. Like for
me, the only, I want to be right about everything,

but I want to be right about everything so
bad that I gonna admit that I'm wrong so I

could find out what right is.

bruce_anthony:
M.

gaknew_roxwel:
You know what I mean. The

bruce_anthony:
So,

gaknew_roxwel:
only way I could.

bruce_anthony:
and so That brings me back to the original

question that I asked you. Like when you're
when you're helping these parents who are

used to a certain form of discipline and structure,
those parents that are combative against What

you're trying to teach them to help them have
a better relationship with their child. How

do you reach them? How can you? How do you
show them? Hey, I'm not trying to say that

you're wrong, but you you're not right.

gaknew_roxwel:
Well,

bruce_anthony:
Let me help you.

gaknew_roxwel:
I think, and for me and my in those situations

is for me to fall back and listen.

bruce_anthony:
M.

gaknew_roxwel:
Because you know are Behaviors all right.

So it's saying that like a behavior is a strategy
to get a need. Um, and that's all of our behaviors

are just strategies to meet our needs, and
I'll even go further to say, not even meeting

our needs, but securing our needs, and so
with that I got to understand that even when

somebody's in denial of something or whatever
they're trying to meet a need of theirs, you

know,

bruce_anthony:
Hm,

gaknew_roxwel:
it may be something That I'm not hearing.

I can't force feed what I think the answer
is. Like

bruce_anthony:
Right,

gaknew_roxwel:
what I think the answer is might not be the

answer first of all, Like I don't live in
their environment. And so that's another kind

of philosophy of mind is. I don't believe
in this whole idea of good and bad. Like how

like good people bad people are. I don't believe
in that who concept. I don't really jibe with

that, so

bruce_anthony:
Hm,

gaknew_roxwel:
as Musician, I kind of look at it as like

harmony and dissonance, right like? So like
there's there's scales right. There's keys

to every song. A song could be played in C
major or D flat, righte, But like so, with

every key there's a wrong note. You can play
a note that doesn't sound right in that key.

And I think

bruce_anthony:
Hm,

gaknew_roxwel:
everything that we do is like a note right.

Either we're playing the note. What we did
is in harmony of our surroundings and what's

going on, or it can be in dissonance with
what's going

bruce_anthony:
M,

gaknew_roxwel:
on, but that doesn't mean like that. Same

now might be in key in another song you know,

bruce_anthony:
Right, okay,

gaknew_roxwel:
so like

bruce_anthony:
yeah,

gaknew_roxwel:
this, you can police these parents on being

aggressive. Right.

bruce_anthony:
Hm,

gaknew_roxwel:
being aggressive is so wrong, or being violent

is so wrong. But then what happens when you
end up In a environment or a situation where

you need that

bruce_anthony:
M.

gaknew_roxwel:
You know what I mean

bruce_anthony:
yeah,

gaknew_roxwel:
like.

bruce_anthony:
yeah,

gaknew_roxwel:
Is it like me? not having that ability might

get me killed somewhere else,

bruce_anthony:
Yeah, this is true.

gaknew_roxwel:
So everything you know it, It takes being

mindful and then we can't expect everybody
to be so mindful because the reality is is

also like. talk about like logic. Like the
logic we use is is preconceived logic. Like

we mostly function on auto. We don't have
to really think about the logic that we're

using. Like The only way that I'm able to
speak to you now without keep saying is because

this is That I've thought about time and time
and time again, so now I can

bruce_anthony:
Hm,

gaknew_roxwel:
just

bruce_anthony:
right,

gaknew_roxwel:
throw it to you, right, or if you're drinking

water when you are a tatler, you probably
pour that all over yourself. but

bruce_anthony:
Hm,

gaknew_roxwel:
now you think about it, you can

bruce_anthony:
You don't think

gaknew_roxwel:
talk.

bruce_anthony:
about it Like driving is like when you drive

in, Then you? just how did I get here? You
know the way, you just all the power. so I

get what you're saying.

gaknew_roxwel:
Everything is autopythere right so, but that

being said like a lot of people don't have
the luxury to sit and ponder ideas they don't

bruce_anthony:
M.

gaknew_roxwel:
like. if I don't have my needs met If I don't

have my needs secure. That's where my thinking
is going. If I don't know where my next meal

is coming from. I don't have time to think
about what aggression does, And passive aggression

and all these theories now, Bro. I'm trying
to get this money so I can secure this meal

for tonight or this,

bruce_anthony:
Yeah,

gaknew_roxwel:
got to rent a room for tonight, or you know,

bruce_anthony:
Yeah,

gaknew_roxwel:
or if my my environment is super aggressive

and I'm hearing loud noises outside, I got
to focus on if I'm safe right now. Is it cool

right now? Do I need to shift things around?
Yeah,

bruce_anthony:
Yeah, Wow, that's rest. Real answer, son,

I'm gonna give you one final question. And
what would be a? some advice that you would

give someone who, as interested in pursuing
the work that you do.

gaknew_roxwel:
Dig in.

bruce_anthony:
Yeah,

gaknew_roxwel:
I mean, you know it's not. It's not hard to

get to. I would say one thing is, uh, Children's
Lost Center. That. really? What changed things

around for me? Me going from just being an
artist that was talking about things that

I didn't really know about

bruce_anthony:
Hm,

gaknew_roxwel:
getting into a space where I was able to learn

with the what's really going on in society,
And that led me back to going back to school,

Study in psychology, And then, uh, it was
just a starting point for me, but I think

school is really the real starting point studying
psychology. I honestly think everybody on

the planets just study psychology because

bruce_anthony:
Yeah,

gaknew_roxwel:
that's true knowledge itself right. Like

bruce_anthony:
Hm,

gaknew_roxwel:
to learn how you function. Think a major thing

is to understand that we're all influenced
all the time, and we're also like Fluencing

others. So when you understand influence and
how it works, then you can begin to influence

your environment and affect the way that it
affects you.

bruce_anthony:
M,

gaknew_roxwel:
You know like

bruce_anthony:
E.

gaknew_roxwel:
if if if you want to build certain habits

for yourself, well, the best way for you to
build those habits for yourself is to put

yourself in an environment that's going to
foster you. building those habits right. Like,

bruce_anthony:
Okay,

gaknew_roxwel:
if you're trying to like stop drinking, you

wouldn't keep kicking it at the bar.

bruce_anthony:
Right, Exactly

gaknew_roxwel:
But you know a lot in life like we, we stuck

in these habits that we have, and we don't
change the space to help us, you know, become

who we want to become,

bruce_anthony:
So you would say that first step for anybody

that wants to enter in your field,

gaknew_roxwel:
So

bruce_anthony:
study some psychology,

gaknew_roxwel:
yes,

bruce_anthony:
and maybe help out in different communities.

gaknew_roxwel:
Oh,

bruce_anthony:
Because

gaknew_roxwel:
absolutely

bruce_anthony:
people

gaknew_roxwel:
absolutely

bruce_anthony:
like, if you're from one community right,

you can't identify from another community
That might be different. You might not ever

be able to identify with that, but at least
you could go into that community and learn

you won't have understanding.

gaknew_roxwel:
Yes,

bruce_anthony:
but maybe you could get some empathy for no

Persons struggle.

gaknew_roxwel:
Right, I mean, honestly, you can get some

real experience to then go back into your
community because there's not one community

that doesn't need help.

bruce_anthony:
M.

gaknew_roxwel:
So you know, I think often times we get people

koming from other communities and it becomes
kind of the saviour complex because they're

coming from what they perceive to be. You
know where the grass is greener and they're

coming to try to help where the grass is dying.
But this grass is dying because you're your

grass is taking all the water. You know what
I mean like, so maybe you

bruce_anthony:
M.

gaknew_roxwel:
need to come see why this grass is dying and

then go back and talk to that side about.
Hey, we're using up all the water.

bruce_anthony:
That's beautifully said. You know. I want

to thank you for

gaknew_roxwel:
Yeah,

bruce_anthony:
coming and doing this interview. that was

really insightful and really knowledgeable.
Some of the stuff that our audience is going

to learn from a lot of what you said today,
and I'm really appreciate of you. join it

today,

gaknew_roxwel:
Thank you, thank you for having.

bruce_anthony:
No doubt about it.