From Adoption to Family Love: Emily Betsill's Inspiring Journey

00:03.68
Bruce Anthony
On today's episode I'm gonna be interviewing Emily Betzel she's a lawyer partner in the law firm a mother and we're gonna be talking about adoption hers and her adopting her kids. But first thanks first.

00:23.67
Bruce Anthony
So like I said the top where I'm going to be interviewing Emily Betzel today like I said she's a lawyer has a bunch of different degrees got psychology degree and Mba a lawyer partner in her law firm. She was also adopted as an effort. And she's adopted 3 children 3 children from Korea so this is going to be a conversation about adoption in her life. How she got to ah where she is in life how she came to the decision to to adopt children and it's a really good interview that's going to keep you on the edge of steep. Ah, edge of your seat because she's got a really interesting story and interesting background. So I'm not going to ramble I'm going to get straight to the interview. So enjoy.

00:09.34
Bruce Anthony
Welcome and I'm here with let's run down the list of accomplishments psychology major she has an Mba. She's a partner in a law firm and perhaps her most important job. She's a mother. Emily Betsilletzel hello welcome to the show. Thank you for joining me today. Absolutely and we're going to be talking about something that where we're going to be talking about your life but a very very important aspect of your life because you have a very interesting story that you were adopted.

00:28.66
Emily Betsill
Thank you I Appreciate you having me.

00:45.64
Bruce Anthony
And then you also decided to adopt children. So that's really what we are going to be talking about today. So can you give? ah the people a little bit of the background of your adoption. Yeah, if your personal adoption.

00:46.45
Emily Betsill
This.

00:57.47
Emily Betsill
Of my personal adoption so I was adopted as an infant in South Carolina I was I think 2 or 3 days old. My birth mother was 16 at the time. What I know now is my birth father was 22 or 3 at the time. And my parents had been attempting to have children and unsuccessfully through I guess the nature way and um, they decided that they wanted to adopt after my mother talked to her obi g I n.

01:33.46
Bruce Anthony
Your adoptive parents decided to adopt they were the ones that were trying to have a child as you said the natural way and ah and so yeah, and then they decided to adopt. Okay, and so you were adopted as an infant.

01:36.67
Emily Betsill
Sure No I say yes yes.

01:50.61
Bruce Anthony
And something happened after your adoption. What was that with your adopted parents.

01:56.66
Emily Betsill
Um, would would oh right? So um I guess after they learned that they were going to be successfully adopting me or thought that they were. They became unexpectedly pregnant with my sister who is exactly to the day seven months younger than me so she and I grew up as older Sister Younger sister but really we're the same age. So.

02:12.69
Bruce Anthony
A.

02:23.58
Bruce Anthony
Really is and right? Yeah, um, how did growing up as an adopted child shape your sense of identity and understanding a family.

02:36.50
Emily Betsill
When I was a kid young. We'll call it up until the age of 15 or 16 I was always the other child. Um, and so and I didn't know anybody else I was adopted so I felt very.

02:50.78
Bruce Anthony
Ah h.

02:52.70
Emily Betsill
I guess uncomfortable and displaced at times when that came to other people talking about other families I don't think I realized it because I was so young and I didn't know I was adopted until I was probably age four or 5 when ah my parents sat us all down and said we're gonna tell you something important and.

03:11.69
Emily Betsill
I Think not knowing anybody else that was adopted at the time was very difficult because it was confusing and it is a confusing conversation and subject and no one else would talk to me about it. No one in my family Even my parents wouldn't talk to me about it. So I think it was always.

03:19.44
Bruce Anthony
Yeah.

03:29.33
Emily Betsill
Like I was a little bit of an outsider when it came to family itself. Um I think as I got older what happened is I decided that being adopted meant that you can have lots of different types of families and that you can have that you can love people that are your best friends I.

03:42.18
Bruce Anthony
Are.

03:48.00
Emily Betsill
Many best friends that have been friends for thirty forty ish what? this and not maybe not forty years but close to 40 years and those people are more my family than anybody else at this point in my life and so I don't know that I define family in the same way that people that are not adopted to find family.

04:06.80
Bruce Anthony
That makes sense. Ah, you said you felt like an outsider I don't know if those were your exact words but is that directly in the relationship between you and your sister because y'all are so close in age. Um.

04:06.97
Emily Betsill
Least for now.

04:22.58
Emily Betsill
Um I.

04:24.26
Bruce Anthony
Was there a dynamic there.

04:28.93
Emily Betsill
So I I think some of it was Casey was not adopted and I was ah and some of it was just not ever being able to talk about adoption not being able to ask questions not being able to it just wasn't off the table topic. It's still off limits for my parents. Today I'm 42 um, it's kind of off limits to my sister in some ways she will talk to me about it but she doesn't really want to talk about the differences between us mostly because her experience of me being adopted was very different than my experience and so I think I felt like.

04:46.73
Bruce Anthony
Um, here.

05:05.17
Emily Betsill
And outsider in the family because I wasn't biologically related and I didn't look like anybody in the family and also a lot of pressure to be perfect. That's pretty common Adoptee I Guess trope these not trope I don't like that word story in that.

05:13.65
Bruce Anthony
A.

05:22.91
Emily Betsill
Feel you feel a lot of pressure to fit in with your family and you don't feel the the flexibility or the space to ask questions and I don't think I even could now ask questions about at least not from my adoptive parents. What happened.

05:36.84
Bruce Anthony
Okay, so your parents decide at the age of 4 or 5 to sit you and your sister down and tell you the truth did you ever ask you say that adoption. That conversation was off the table but I'm sure you had to be curious. Did you ever ask your parents why that moment what brought about that conversation and do you have any memories or moments that stick out to you in that conversation.

06:07.00
Emily Betsill
So I definitely have asked them over the years what made them tell me when they told me and the answer is always very short. We just thought you're old enough. Everyone had told us that we should never tell you and um, that was pretty common back in the 1970 s and early eighty s that you. Adopted a child especially if a child looked like you in terms of race. You probably wouldn't tell your kids and I have friends now as an adult that found out by accident through different ways. Ancestry.com or finding a paper or those types of things. But my parents decided they were gonna tell me but they needed to wait until I was old enough and I I mean did it really shaped how my life is and it also shaped because I've never been able to say to them hey guys one day I was your kid and one day and the next day I felt like I wasn't quite as much of your kid as.

06:54.82
Bruce Anthony
Earth ever.

06:58.12
Emily Betsill
As my sister was and when you're so young you don't know how to name those feelings or those thoughts in ways that are productive. But I mean honestly, the research in terms of adoption has come so far since 1980 that they were just doing what they were told to do and kind of they were just kind of muddling through the best that they could from their own generational traumas and navigating this kid who was adopted and they didn't I mean there was no way for them to know what my experience was and unfortunately I had no one else around me no other adopted kids to talk to.

07:31.25
Bruce Anthony
Yeah.

07:33.43
Emily Betsill
To say I might be like this kind of sucks or I'm kind of confused by this or do your parents talk to you about this or those types of things but I have a very clear memory of being sat down and told I I can picture the entire like where we were in the house. Who was there. It was I mean it was just my nuclear family at the time I was sitting on my mom's lap we were in this old recliner that she liked room by the window I have very very detailed vivid memories and I was very young. So I don't have a whole lot of memories like that but clearly it was a memory that was gonna what would they call them core memories.

08:07.70
Bruce Anthony
E a.

08:09.50
Emily Betsill
Was going to shape me because from that moment on I was different in a way that I didn't understand and I couldn't talk to anybody about which is difficult.

08:18.76
Bruce Anthony
It is difficult. You said your sister has a different. Um, yeah experience with your adoption and and you say like kind of it's kind of an off-limits conversation. But I'm sure.

08:24.29
Emily Betsill
Experience.

08:35.45
Bruce Anthony
She's expressed that what was her experience with your adoption.

08:38.10
Emily Betsill
So for me being adopted. It was pressure to be perfect in a way that meant that I could fit in and be loved and there's a whole other layer of abuse that was happening in my house that had nothing to do with the adoption. But I think even the adoption itself would have created this situation where I felt very different and othered and pressure to fit into the family. Um, and what my sister felt was everybody thinks Emily's the golden child nobody loves me enough because I was an afterthought.

09:02.35
Bruce Anthony
Head.

09:13.66
Bruce Anthony
Wow here.

09:15.39
Emily Betsill
And that is I think I think she's accurate in that and I think that dynamic that they placed on us meant because it was always that the narrative was. We waited for you Forever. We prayed for you. We tried to get Pregnant. We couldn't get pregnant and then a miracle happened and my Ovgyan told me that there was this girl that was pregnant and she was looking to place. The baby and I don't know that she she wouldn' have used there. My parents wouldn' have used those words because they were those are common adoption words Um, but to my family I was prayed for and I was wanted and I was loved and I was.

09:57.37
Emily Betsill
Needed and I was gonna complete the family and for Casey my mom thought she was a tumor for a while and told everyone that and so told me that and I'm sure I teased casey about it growing up because kids are mean and sibs are jerks.

10:05.38
Bruce Anthony
Um, hey.

10:12.60
Bruce Anthony
Right? Yeah yeah, siblings are the worse.

10:16.37
Emily Betsill
and and I think from Casey's experience all no nothing she ever did was going to be good enough to meet this golden child expectation. So I was living up to this unreasonable expectation.

10:24.38
Bruce Anthony
Here.

10:32.48
Emily Betsill
And she was also living up to my unreasonable expectation but those experiences are different and I think it meant that we fought more that we than typical siblings I mean I guess I don't know but I think it made an additional layer of anger and Resentment. Didn't need to be there and it carried through I mean she and I she's about to be 42 and we don't talk that and you know we'll go through waves of being really close but it it doesn't last long because there's so Much. There's so much. Yes, and it's we're not angry with each other.

10:53.49
Bruce Anthony
Yeah.

11:03.64
Bruce Anthony
Baggage. Yeah there. Yeah I mean that sometimes that happens in sibling relationships. So with that dynamic of you being the the golden child I'm sure there was.

11:08.42
Emily Betsill
We just can't be close to each other.

11:21.41
Bruce Anthony
Like in most sibling Households. There's some type of Rivalry. Um, you're You're a very accomplished person I ran down your degrees and the fact that you're a partner in a law firm now. Um sort of means you probably did well in school. Um, where there competitions especially with you guys basically being the same age so you probably were in the same grade depending on when her birthday falls. Um, so where there competition and grades and and sports and all that type of stuff.

11:47.82
Emily Betsill
We out 100 yeah 100%. So what my parents said when we were young is um, they put us both in a private school so I could test in to the grade above me. There was 2 young four because my birthday was past the date so that Casey and I wouldn't be in the same grade but the problem with that is I was always casey and I made similar grades but I was always a grade ahead of her and we were the same age and then I graduated high school early so I went to college two years earlier than she did.

12:09.79
Bruce Anthony
Ah, okay.

12:13.73
Bruce Anthony
Yeah, he yeah.

12:23.14
Emily Betsill
And we were the same grade and the trope was always well Emily's got a pluses you just you only have a mins or you have b pluses or Emily got this award at school or Emily's valedictorian you're only top 20% of the class or 10 percent or whatever she votes. Um. You're never going to be as smart as emily you're never going to be as good as Emily and I don't think that that's true that my sister is brilliant but I don't but that was absolutely the narrative in the house.

12:50.99
Bruce Anthony
That was a narrative that was actually spoken or was that unspoken. Wow Wow and this is your parents saying this.

12:54.90
Emily Betsill
Oh no, it was spoken. It was definitely spoken to me and to her so and yes and there's so there's already a dynamic of pitting us against each other in this like least the Golden child narrative. But then it not just in favoring in favoring me like in that way that everybody knows somebody's favor but nobody says it out loud. No. It was definitely said out loud by grandparents by my parents and you know looking back on it. My Dad's parents were alcoholics. And my mother's didn't know her father very well and had an abusive stepfather and a very abusive mother who wasn't diagnosed with bipolar disorder until she was probably 75 so they came from these houses that were difficult and abusive and traumatic.

13:45.48
Bruce Anthony
A.

13:53.77
Emily Betsill
And I don't think that they knew how to deal with jealousy of their kids being smart or jealousy of their kids having more privilege than they had growing up or any of the other things that happen when you become a parent that I mean I think I say it all the time like my kids have.

14:07.21
Bruce Anthony
Are. The.

14:12.82
Emily Betsill
Damn easy like because they do have it easier than me and it is our difficult. Um I guess thought to have and not.

14:28.25
Emily Betsill
Act on it in a way that is detrimental to your kids and that's what happened I mean I think my kid my parents saw casey as biological and not as good as me and they saw me as not biological and not as good or not as good as them or not the same as them and I think. And my father's mind he wasn't smart none none of my parents but I'm the first person in my entire I think family to go to college and so in my dad's mind Emily's smart because she's not related to us. But she's also bad because she's not related to us and casey's.

14:55.31
Bruce Anthony
A.

15:05.87
Emily Betsill
Good because she is related to us. But she's not smart because she's related to us and neither of those movies are true a lot and know I've had a lot of therapy to unpack these layers. Um.

15:09.80
Bruce Anthony
Wow. Who Yes, there that that is a ah ok,, let's let's let's let's switch to something ah because you brought up all your accomplishments and you know Ballet Victorian graduated high school early and all this and that.

15:24.32
Emily Betsill
Okay.

15:32.66
Emily Betsill
Um.

15:32.84
Bruce Anthony
You know you know you got your psychology degree. You got your Nba You got your law degree. You got all these different things. How did your educational journey contribute to your personal and professional growth. Yeah, no now dear.

15:43.94
Emily Betsill
My educational journey or my adoption.

15:51.76
Bruce Anthony
Educational journey. How did that contribute to your personal professional growth because so people don't know this but you grew up in a small town in South Carolina so you're graduating high school early and you're going off to college. So.

15:58.79
Emily Betsill
I did. Then I'm a baby. Yeah.

16:09.53
Bruce Anthony
In this journey of your education as you as you went to three separate colleges and you're stacking up all these degrees. How did that contribute to your personal and professional growth.

16:21.38
Emily Betsill
I think that that answer is different now than it would have been ten years ago but to so today I would say going to college early meant that I had to.

16:31.31
Bruce Anthony
Ooh, let's examine both of them.

16:40.80
Emily Betsill
Um, overcome some immaturities quicker than I would have had I not gone to college at 16 Um I think I felt like I was in competition with everyone and because I was a mature and I was kid and I felt like I needed to.

16:45.91
Bruce Anthony
Tv.

16:55.20
Bruce Anthony
And could that have been carryover from the way you were raised because you were in constant competition so you just went from competing with your sister to competing with your classmates. Yeah.

16:59.82
Emily Betsill
100 or so 100% to competing with everyone else. That's right and competing with myself and pushing myself harder because. Ah, wanted to be seen as more grown up and I mean when you're 16 and your room roommate's 18 or 19 you do feel like a little kid because that's a big age gap at that age that age. Um, and I think what happened is it made me push myself harder and so.

17:21.85
Bruce Anthony
Um, yeah at that age. Yes.

17:32.29
Emily Betsill
Because I pushed myself harder I got good grades in college because I pushed myself harder I got really good grades in grad school and then I got good grades in law school and because of that it meant that I had more opportunities. Um, professionally I think than other people would have but for that narrative and but for that experience.

17:42.40
Bruce Anthony
A.

17:51.68
Emily Betsill
But I think that going to school so early. Um I mean I needed to get out of the house that I was in so going to school early was it saved me. Um I don't think I realized that back then that I was saving myself.

18:01.37
Bruce Anthony
It is.

18:10.75
Emily Betsill
Ah, but I think that what happened is I had to grow up really fast and I don't know that I appreciated it I did not appreciate the lessons that I was learning so young and how to navigate difficult spaces. Then carried into how to navigate difficult spaces in my professional life and how to navigate because I mean being in a so in a profession where most of the upper I guess.

18:28.30
Bruce Anthony
Um.

18:46.39
Emily Betsill
Senior management now is in their sixty s and usually white and usually male male is it comes with a different level of um navigating is not quite the right word. But ah, you have to switch how you would.

19:05.33
Emily Betsill
Talk to them and how you would manage them and manage up and I don't think that I would have been able to do that successfully without having those experiences very young. Um, and I was fortunate I've been really really lucky to have lots of mentors and other things so there are other things there are other people that helped me get.

19:13.10
Bruce Anthony
Yeah.

19:23.93
Emily Betsill
To to where I am it wasn't just me on my own. But if you had asked me ten years ago and I told you I did all about myself. Um.

19:24.63
Bruce Anthony
So now you appreciate the team of your success as opposed to to just is it was just all me now. It's no it was a team to help me to get to where I was.

19:40.40
Emily Betsill
Now there's lots of different people along the way that that supported me and gave me advice and gave me a place to stay or film a blank thing that I needed at the time to keep going I had a lot of good friends and and I mean not just mentors.

19:44.14
Bruce Anthony
But.

19:59.35
Emily Betsill
Professionally but friends and people that are my family that really supported me and I don't think I appreciated that when I was 32 versus no

20:01.66
Bruce Anthony
Yeah, So what? I'm gathering from what you're saying is is that even though you had to get out your house at at a young age and and then you go into so and then environment very young in college that that that. Helped you navigate yourself in your professional career because had you not had that maybe your professional career navigating that would have been extremely more difficult but you had these challenges so young that you you were like by the time you got into I'm paraphrasing here for what I think I understand for what you're saying.

20:39.85
Emily Betsill
Um.

20:41.33
Bruce Anthony
But having those challenges so young prepared you when you entered the professional world like I hadn't been through that before I'd have been through something way harder than that I can definitely get my way through this.

20:50.72
Emily Betsill
And I think that that has served me well in the last we'll call it five-ish years of my professional career and I think that the chip on my shoulder because of all the things that had happened before because of all all the hard work I had to put in because it was.

20:57.36
Bruce Anthony
Are.

21:06.88
Emily Betsill
In my mind harder for me and it it I think those held me back ten years ago in a way that they don't now and I mean we'll call that therapy or we'll just call it growth or some combination. But I think that.

21:12.25
Bruce Anthony
A.

21:25.26
Emily Betsill
Going through really difficult experiences does shape you and does allow you to go through different difficult experiences later on I just wasn't the only one going through them I wasn't the only person having a hard time but there are many many many people have different hard times for many different reasons. Um that take that.

21:33.81
Bruce Anthony
There.

21:45.17
Emily Betsill
Experience and become better in power. They do So I Hope that's growth. We'll see as me the ten years. Um.

21:53.31
Bruce Anthony
Sounds like that's growth to me well at 10 years we constantly take ah more and more steps and reevaluate where we were and and and we hope to not be the same person that we were last year right? So ten years there should be significant growth.

22:10.24
Emily Betsill
Um, anyone closer anyway.

22:19.60
Bruce Anthony
Okay, so Emily we've talked about your career. Ah, and we've talked about you being adopted. But as I said the started a show that you've also adopted children so you were married ah and you and your husband at that time decided to adopt.

22:30.36
Emily Betsill
I was.

22:36.50
Bruce Anthony
3 children and you adopted 3 children from Korea so my questions are what led you to adopt what led you to adopt children from career and what was that whole process of adoption like.

22:49.92
Emily Betsill
So I have never I don't remember a time in my entire life where I thought that I would get pregnant and have a child or at least not intentionally um and even if it was intentionally I don't know that I would still have had a child that way. So I always knew if I had kids and I was not 100% sure I would just as you're growing up. You don't know that I would adopt kids once Eric and I decided my ex-husband and I decided that we would move forward having kids he had known the whole time. For years that I would only wanted to adopt and by then we were probably 3 or four or five years into our actual relationship. You know like dating marriage relationship. So we contacted several different adoption agencies in the area and we chose the one that we thought was most ethical I was very very very adamant about not adopting domestically I still feel pretty strongly about this if you if I had to do it again today I would not adopt.

23:45.81
Bruce Anthony
Um, okay.

23:57.67
Emily Betsill
Domestically and a lot of that is wrapped up in me being adopted my adoption being closed me not having any medical even medical information like whenever you go to the doctor and even now I mean I know more information now. But even but up until my mid thirty s.

24:02.19
Bruce Anthony
Are and.

24:16.38
Emily Betsill
Every time an adoptee goes to the doctor you get asked where your dear parents have diabetes do your parents have high blood pressure these like long list of medical questions that you can't answer and. Doctors never remember and it's never in your file. Even if you've gone to the doctor for 10 years that you can't answer the question and they still ask you that he have questions So I really was not okay with a closed adoption system I was really adamant that I thought that there was a lot of corruption and adoption in this.

24:36.79
Bruce Anthony
Is.

24:49.47
Emily Betsill
In the states I think that that is still very true I think that Earth mothers are still coerced and to to um, making the decision to place their children with an adoptive family. Um, so we decided we were gonna go international and.

24:51.25
Bruce Anthony
15

25:07.29
Emily Betsill
We picked an agency we thought was ethical. We picked a program of the programs or that agency supported in terms of international countries that we thought was the most ethical I still believe that Korea is probably the most ethical. There are lots of stories of international adoption that are not ethical. Um I mean no coercion. No one's getting paid off to to place their child. No one's getting pressured by the government or pressured by a dot like that it is.

25:29.10
Bruce Anthony
And when you say ethical can't give me an example.

25:44.56
Emily Betsill
A consensual situation. Not a let me give you a bunch of money or maybe or let me physically intimidate you to to place this child and that does happen in other countries. Um I think especially in countries where.

25:54.20
Bruce Anthony
Um, okay, okay.

26:01.26
Emily Betsill
Their poor more poor societies. A lot of women get lied to told that they if they give their baby to the agency or to the orphanage. They'll get paid a bunch of money and they can always come back and get their baby lead and that's never excuse me. Is not often true in those situations that's not happening in Korea and or at least not to my knowledge from what I understand so that's how we chose Korea um I think there's still problems with a korean adoption system as I think there probably I don't know that there is an adoption system that has.

26:22.60
Bruce Anthony
Here.

26:33.52
Bruce Anthony
A.

26:41.24
Emily Betsill
Devoid of problems. But um I still believe that they're the most ethical in terms of making sure that birth mothers are taken care of not coerced into placing their children given the opportunity to parent now. The korean government has made some decisions. To try to encourage parenting in Korea. So um, as everything else I do it was a very wellseared into this and terms of um, ah the thing I didn't realize.

27:00.34
Bruce Anthony
Okay.

27:07.31
Bruce Anthony
Yeah, this sounds like it was very researched. Yeah.

27:17.50
Emily Betsill
In the beginning because I wasn't a mom and I didn't have any experience with kids is that adopting a child that's fourteen fifteen Sixteen Seventeen months is very difficult in many different ways and and adopting any child means that your child is going to have severed. Relationship with ah with their parent and with their first parents and possibly severed relationships with subsequent foster parents or or something like that and there's going to be lost there and there's gonna be trauma there and I knew that part because of my own experience. But what I didn't understand is.

27:39.10
Bruce Anthony
Um, a.

27:46.12
Bruce Anthony
There.

27:55.93
Emily Betsill
Um, watching a child grieve at that age is is heartbreaking and I'm not saying I think I made the totally wrong decision. My kids are amazing I mean they're a little wild but um, they're amazing humans. They're just really good humans.

27:58.29
Bruce Anthony
A.

28:12.56
Bruce Anthony
Yeah.

28:14.93
Emily Betsill
Um, even when they test me, they're just really cool. Interesting good human, but what I didn't realize from being a mom would be was I was gonna miss like when people say oh what was it like several things happened what was it like when Jay was.

28:22.15
Bruce Anthony
Ah.

28:34.86
Bruce Anthony
A.

28:34.91
Emily Betsill
Ah, month old I don't know oh well, you must have had a really easy time because you didn't have them as as newborns and I was like well the transition with a fifteen month old who doesn't know your language and doesn't know your smells and has had several transitions isn't.

28:50.57
Bruce Anthony
Right? there.

28:50.87
Emily Betsill
Like the walk in the park that you think is um I I still think I would do it again. I have one of my really close friends adopted a baby an infant two years ago now and.

29:09.29
Emily Betsill
She and her husband have been married a few years and it was still a struggle they adopted domestically. It's an open adoption and it is these. It's still a big struggle and I don't think that her journey or my journey I don't think you should ever.

29:21.86
Bruce Anthony
A.

29:27.48
Emily Betsill
Compare How hard your life is but I don't think that our Journeys are dissimilar and how difficult that transition was um.

29:34.96
Bruce Anthony
With all 3 of them. You said the oldest one was fifteen months did you adopt the the other two were they closer to now.

29:40.90
Emily Betsill
60 yeah somewhere around there.

29:47.55
Emily Betsill
They were all yeah somewhere all 3 of them were somewhere between I think fourteen and sixteen months

29:55.45
Bruce Anthony
Did going through it. The first time make it easier the second or third time no because they're all 3 different personalities.

30:03.92
Emily Betsill
Just different personalities and also you know Jay unfortunately gets the the like idiot parents no matter what age j is gonna be ja gets the idiot parents right? because I will never know what it's like to parent anything other than a.

30:13.80
Bruce Anthony
Um, yeah.

30:23.35
Emily Betsill
Ah, 12 year old child at this point right? Um, and so Jay got though I I don't think I'd ever changed to diaper mom so and like what the hell is this.

30:27.55
Bruce Anthony
Um, a.

30:33.00
Bruce Anthony
Oh good God Oh my goodness.

30:42.98
Emily Betsill
Think so give me a baby like this isn't this is not right guys I don't think we should be doing this mom whereas down when I got the mom that understood babies right? and then Noah got the mom that like was too tired and just like let him have every anything he wanted. So every.

30:46.49
Bruce Anthony
I was right.

31:02.22
Emily Betsill
Child got a different version of me and I think I think they all had it very difficult because of their personalities but there were easier things and more difficult things depending on which child you were down I came home and there was Jay and Jay was 3 years older than donor. So Jay was.

31:02.48
Bruce Anthony
A.

31:14.72
Bruce Anthony
Earth.

31:22.26
Emily Betsill
Like 4 It's 2015 James 4 when d came home and so um d had a little like ah, an older sibling to look up to right and like oh cool this sibling. Trust these people.

31:24.95
Bruce Anthony
Okay.

31:33.53
Bruce Anthony
They hear.

31:41.24
Emily Betsill
That this sibling seems to be thriving. Maybe they won't maybe they're pretty cool. You know whereas Jay was just like I don't know you and I'm not gonna need to know you because you are not my mom and I think downa had an easier time trusting and I I've seen this with other kid Groots is that kids trust.

31:53.11
Bruce Anthony
Um, her if.

32:01.50
Emily Betsill
Adults that other kids trust didn did not know that before d and then I think Noah also had that similar experience and downa know are still very close and so they had that experience that was really awesome and Jay has had experiences where they get to do a lot of things that their younger siblings don't get to do.

32:03.50
Bruce Anthony
Huh. Okay.

32:17.59
Bruce Anthony
A.

32:19.79
Emily Betsill
And I just think it was very hard every time and some of it was you know right? before we got matched with d my birth parents came or showed up excuse me not my birth mother. Not my birth parents. My birth aunt showed up I think a few months before we got matched.

32:40.82
Bruce Anthony
Okay, so before you match with your second child your birth aunt this is the sister of your mother or birth birth mother. So your birth aunt comes searching for you. Not your birth mother or your birth father.

32:49.67
Emily Betsill
Mother mother.

32:59.60
Emily Betsill
Right? Well um, the story is that I was supposed to be in a closed adoption and they were in a town. We'll call it like 45 minutes from the town that I grew up in.

32:59.68
Bruce Anthony
And how does that come about.

33:17.37
Emily Betsill
And um, they placed and my parents adopted but my father had a friend that lived in between these towns because of his job knew.

33:28.70
Bruce Anthony
Yes.

33:32.56
Emily Betsill
They were a dot and a little baby and knew the story because they just blabbed the information everywhere and that yes my dad so my dad had a friend that that they were they were obviously took as they were excited roomop and a baby. The birth mother is 16 whatever whatever. Um.

33:36.40
Bruce Anthony
Your your adopted parents. Okay.

33:51.90
Emily Betsill
We got it through this Og and that woman also knew or that couple also knew my birth mother and my birth mother's mother because she worked with my birth mother's mother.

34:06.19
Bruce Anthony
Okay, because you're town because your birth parents are only about 45 minutes away from your adopt. Ah.

34:14.57
Emily Betsill
And they're all small pounds in South Korea in the middle of South Carolina um and my father's job took him like throughout the entire state. So it's not it just happened to be this family but mostly the woman because I what I understand is the woman worked with my birth.

34:24.78
Bruce Anthony
Um, if.

34:32.94
Emily Betsill
Um, well birth Step grandmother. Um.

34:34.44
Bruce Anthony
Okay, so we're gonna We're gonna have to label things so that people could follow along because I because I we don't have to put their real names out there. But when you say your mother or father you're talking about your adoptive parents you That's a automatic default. Okay.

34:38.51
Emily Betsill
Okay, okay, so we'll call them. People's name. We'll call them. My people's names. Okay.

34:50.14
Emily Betsill
I'm just talking talking about my adoptive parents. That's right.

34:53.92
Bruce Anthony
So your adopt your dad who was your adoptive father worked all along the state. He had your adoptive parents had a friend that knew the family of your birth that knew your birth family.

34:57.73
Emily Betsill
Yes, yes. Yes.

35:10.45
Emily Betsill
Yes, and my birth mother will call her Anne um had a stepmother and the stepmother worked with this friend so she the friend also knew the stepmom story.

35:21.74
Bruce Anthony
Okay. Did they know this this the entire time or was did it all? okay.

35:27.40
Emily Betsill
And my parents never knew but the friend knew and told my birth mother's family who I was going to and where I was and what I was doing and what and about my parents and. What they did and all this stuff they knew my name. Yeah, they always knew so around 34 right before my 30 fourth birthday let me get this right no right before my third is third birthday. They showed up.

35:47.11
Bruce Anthony
So your birth family. Always they always knew where you were okay.

36:06.41
Emily Betsill
Excuse me ah my and um, sister contacted me on my work email because she knew my name so she just googled me. We'll call her jill.

36:16.91
Bruce Anthony
Wow. Okay now this is your work email and this is your 34 so it's 2000 and forest. Okay are you when you get this email.

36:28.39
Emily Betsill
Forish this right before my 30 fourth birthday. So. As a 14 now I know so it gets now it gets a little better because my family my mom and dad each had a lot of siblings and I grew up in the town that my dad grew up in and his family like well. He only had 1 sibling but like.

36:35.96
Bruce Anthony
Are you at work because it's smart because so you're it's smart.

36:54.56
Emily Betsill
I had a very large extended family. My grandmother had 8 brothers and sisters like so to have someone contact me and say hi Emily it's aunt Joe I just want you know I'm thinking about you would be weird.

36:57.17
Bruce Anthony
A.

37:12.57
Emily Betsill
But not like totally off brand for like an elderly aunt who just got email right? So so call a mom from work that day and said hey my like um, who's this lady her name is so and so and um.

37:13.51
Bruce Anthony
Um, okay, okay, that makes sense. Okay.

37:32.41
Emily Betsill
She says she's my aunt and like I don't I think I remember an Aunt Soandso ah is that is that So Ando sister and my mom was like I don't know that person we're go have to ask your dad because it would have been somebody that the thought was it probably be somebody for my dad's son.

37:42.66
Bruce Anthony
A.

37:48.17
Bruce Anthony
Okay.

37:51.62
Emily Betsill
It was not and then it clicked with my mother in some in the conversation that day that it was probably my my birth family reaching out and she and then it come and then over the years like the story of how they found me and how they knew who I was has come out.

38:00.79
Bruce Anthony
Can.

38:09.28
Bruce Anthony
And that was basically through a Google search. Yeah, okay yeah, you can find you can get everything everything that you want you can find on the internet. Yeah.

38:10.18
Emily Betsill
Um, they knew my name I mean if you know somebody's name.

38:20.70
Emily Betsill
You get everything more and they knew I'd moved to Dc they knew I didn't following me right or following me through this word of mouth from this this mutual connection.

38:32.52
Bruce Anthony
So by this point you had already gotten your law degree. You were already a lawyer correct when your biological ant reaches out to you What is going through your mind. Do you think it's genuine. Do you think there's nefarious activity.

38:38.35
Emily Betsill
So.

38:48.29
Emily Betsill
And not both.

38:51.35
Bruce Anthony
Going on because you've you're a lawyer and it's small town South Carolina like like.

38:53.98
Emily Betsill
Well I mean my my mom. My dad said that my dad was like what do you think they want and I was like I don't know like because that I'm in shock I'd been looking for them on and off I asked my parents when I was 21 if they'd help me find them and they wouldn't and.

39:10.80
Bruce Anthony
Are a.

39:13.49
Emily Betsill
So I had been looking and there's all this information that they had the lawyer's name that they used to finalize the court and I could have gone to the doctor but I didn't have his name so like there's lots of information because in South Carolina I can't just go and ask for my records to be open. That's not well I guess it might be a thing now but it was not a thing.

39:27.87
Bruce Anthony
Yeah.

39:32.84
Emily Betsill
In 2000 um so when records are sealed. They are sealed forever. So my family had a lot of information that I could have possibly gone to the people and said can you reach out to this family but my family wouldn't help me.

39:36.97
Bruce Anthony
Um, yeah.

39:52.80
Emily Betsill
So I was more in shock I don't know that I thought like that they had any ill intentions now since then I've met my birth fathers or not met. But I've you know, virtually met my birth father and his life and hurt their 2 siblings and then his. Daughter from his first marriage who I accidentally told we were siblings. So there's been a lot of there's been a long journey of this like unfolding of these people that are related to me. It's it's a little wild.

40:16.73
Bruce Anthony
Emily I got to do a pause because you just do so much have me and I have so many questions number 1 yeah number 1 it? Okay so your parents won't help you find your biological family at the age of 21 but they reach out to you at at the age of 34

40:29.30
Emily Betsill
So.

40:35.85
Bruce Anthony
Probably at some point over that 13 year period you just like whatever I guess it's never going to happen so there has to be some relief at that point because you were searching for your biological I thirteen years later um as you're.

40:38.67
Emily Betsill
I can't do anything about this? yeah. 100 % 100%

40:52.87
Bruce Anthony
Introduced to your biological family and you start finding out information. What different set of emotions go through you specifically because they're so close. No so close and distance your family is.

41:07.54
Emily Betsill
You mean an age. Oh in terms of um I mean first I felt an extreme loyalty to my parents.

41:12.16
Bruce Anthony
Right? there next time I'm over there.

41:21.20
Bruce Anthony
Your adoptive parents.

41:23.66
Emily Betsill
Did not want me to meet them. They did not want me to have anything to do with them. They did my mom couldn't even talk about it and that's a whole lot of that's her own journey. Um, so I've got a lot of loyalty to them and so when my sister my my sister.

41:28.20
Bruce Anthony
Here.

41:42.38
Emily Betsill
From my adoptive family and I decided we were going to go meet my birth mother's entire family all of her siblings except her all of her nieces nephews not her. Um.

41:52.41
Bruce Anthony
The first time you meet your biological family. You're meeting everybody.

41:59.18
Emily Betsill
We met the entire family and I asked I asked my sister to go with me and she said yes, but we did not tell my parents and we never did Yes, Yes, um, and so for a long time I just couldn't.

42:04.36
Bruce Anthony
Your adoptive sister and you didn't tell your adoptive parents. Okay, yes.

42:17.12
Emily Betsill
I think I just didn't process it I think I emotionally shut down. We got matched with d other things had gone on in my marriage. Um, um like about a month later there were some things that went on in my marriage that eventually made it impossible for us to be together. Um.

42:32.38
Bruce Anthony
Are.

42:37.82
Emily Betsill
So I think I just had too much at 1 time and downa we match butona and um in twenty it you like you know a few months later maybe four months later and so we just.

42:54.50
Emily Betsill
I think I just let it sit and every now and then my aunt will reach out to me. She so reaches out to me. Um for a little while she wanted a really close relationship with me and I got in my birth father's who he's not connected to my birth mother anymore and hasn't been for 40 years

42:54.66
Bruce Anthony
Here. Dr.

43:12.81
Emily Betsill
Um, birth father's new wife second wife wanted to be very close to me because she's only 2 years older than me and um, it's that's I mean that's like a side story. But yes.

43:21.31
Bruce Anthony
Wait minute what wait wait a minute what you said your birth father's second wife is only a few years older than you.

43:34.34
Emily Betsill
She's two years older than me. She's born in 78 in like November seven eight like close to my birthday.

43:37.31
Bruce Anthony
Um, Emily I have a whole bunch of other emily I have a whole bunch of other questions that that I need to get to but you keep giving me more information that I'm just yeah yeah that I've just like.

43:45.43
Emily Betsill
Um, like um, um mean someone new and telling this story. They're just like this cannot possibly be true and I'm like no it kind of is It's just weird and crazy and a little self Carolina but.

44:01.15
Bruce Anthony
Ah Wow. Okay, all right? Ah so all right D comes into the fold and you kind of just let things lie and then and your marriages is falling apart and then.

44:10.51
Emily Betsill
Um, I Just let it go.

44:16.76
Bruce Anthony
You adopt a third child. How did that with everything going on. How did that decision come about.

44:26.26
Emily Betsill
Um, I personally always wanted a lot of kids like once I decided I was gonna have kids I wanted a lot of kids I wanted my kids to have other kids that looked like them in their house because when Eric and I were married when my ex-husband and I were married.

44:31.11
Bruce Anthony
E.

44:40.31
Bruce Anthony
Yeah, you do you? That's like the second or third time you put his name out there but but that's okay, that's okay, that's a I know it's it's okay, it's all right.

44:43.50
Emily Betsill
Um.

44:47.22
Emily Betsill
sorry I'm sorry I've been trying to change people's name. It's it hard to change your husband's name. Um, when we were married they were. We were going to be 2 white parents with white families with these three korean children and I've worked really hard to have. People that look like them in their lives at all stay like that are my age korean adoptees that are my age. Um korean people that were not adopted that are my age korean people that are their age adoptees that are their age but I it was really important to me that they had somebody else that looked like in their house.

45:24.20
Bruce Anthony
Um.

45:24.39
Emily Betsill
Um, and you know I'm thankful for that in lots of ways that they do have each other. They don't always like each other but they at least when we talk about adoption and we talk about Korea they and all talk about it together. You know we're going to take this. Trip back to Korea next year with the adoption agency in our homeland tour know that covid restrictions are over and they'll be able to experience that together not in the same experience. They won't all have the same experience but they they at least can say oh we're going back to Korea and it's all of their home. You know so.

45:53.50
Bruce Anthony
There here.

45:59.54
Emily Betsill
I Think what happened is I just wanted more kids and I was a little bit on autopilot. Not a little bit I was on autopilot I was I don't I can't say I was emotionally shut down because I was feeling the feelings of being of learning to love my children and becoming a mom and all those things So I don't think I ever didn't love my children but there were just things I just shut off.

46:17.24
Bruce Anthony
Are.

46:19.17
Emily Betsill
Compartmentalized in a way that I don't think that I could have processed my birth be only coming back and we just kept going and I I'm not sure that I could have fully processed know way like what happened between ma's-husband and I I don't know that I was in a space to be able to process and this is well before I went to therapy.

46:23.34
Bruce Anthony
There.

46:37.99
Emily Betsill
Process like what happened on top of us getting matched with Donna and I think I just put that like over here somewhere to deal with different time and I think that's probably a common story. But so we quickly made the decision to adopt Noaa and.

46:47.86
Bruce Anthony
Um, here.

46:57.40
Emily Betsill
Then? um, no I went to Korea by myself on Christmas Day Twenty Sixteen Fifteen yes 2016 and then Noah and I came back to Dc birthday on near's eve. That year and um, once we started to acclimate I think it became very clear very quickly that my ex-husband and I should needed to to part ways. So I think the decision to have three kids was born out of.

47:17.34
Bruce Anthony
Um, here.

47:35.30
Bruce Anthony
Never.

47:35.40
Emily Betsill
Me always wanting more than two kids. But also our but I mean the decision to move forward in the light in light of all of these other things was my ability to just put that over here in this box and like deal with this a little later and 1

47:48.30
Bruce Anthony
Do you think that is learned from just growing up how you did. Yeah.

47:54.94
Emily Betsill
Oh 100 % 100% I mean because sometimes when you don't when the adults in your life. Don't give the space to process the things that are going on in your life and make the some of the topics completely off the table and adoption wasn't the only trauma going on in my house growing up and so. There were no safe spaces inside the home and when you're when the people that you trust the most aren't giving you the space to to process and to to grieve or ask questions or.

48:15.78
Bruce Anthony
Near here. Talk.

48:30.20
Emily Betsill
We matter fill in the blank emotion that might come with trauma. You do learn to compartmentalize very early. Um I think my sister who's not adopted learn to come compartmentalize very early and so I think I was very very very good at it and had to unlearn that skill in almost.

48:39.61
Bruce Anthony
Are.

48:48.74
Emily Betsill
I guess a decade now of therapy and it was very easy at the time. Um, and I don't regret the journey because like Noah is pretty dope I mean like if you think about it I know it's like a little diabolically dope but like in a little packet.

49:07.35
Bruce Anthony
Okay, diaolically dope. That's how I describe my younger brother as diabolicically dope. Yeah so I know exactly what you mean when you say that? Um, okay, so you and your husband decide to.

49:08.45
Emily Betsill
But.

49:23.84
Bruce Anthony
Divorce. How do you balance being a single mother having a successful law career because you're climbing that corporate law ladder.

49:24.72
Emily Betsill
Mohan.

49:41.29
Bruce Anthony
How do you and and just your personal life. How do you balance all of that as a single mother.

49:46.67
Emily Betsill
Um, in the beginning not well I made a lot of mistakes. Um I think that the key is my ex-husband and I through all the things that we didn't agree On. We did at least agree on the kids and how the kids should be raised and who should be around the kids and you know even now he's remarried and the 3 of us make decisions not all decisions together. But we at least like.

50:05.47
Bruce Anthony
And.

50:16.10
Emily Betsill
Talk amongst the houses like oh did you see Dona lost a tooth or like like little things like that that make it smooth. Um, that's fit I think that being great co-parents has been made it easier. Um I it did there are other stories that don't look like that and it makes it very difficult.

50:22.80
Bruce Anthony
So you're very good co-parents.

50:31.59
Bruce Anthony
There.

50:35.13
Emily Betsill
I Also during the Pandemic um was fortunately in a position to be able to seek out and pay for help and because I don't have any family clothes and all of my friends that are seeing either. They have kids over there.

50:44.36
Bruce Anthony
Here.

50:53.42
Emily Betsill
You know that they're taking care of small kids or they're single and they'll help me every now and then it's not like B doesn't come over and help or like there's not that she's not so Anti B is that she's got her own nuphws and nieces too and like no single person want come wash your kids all the time. There's not a thing. So.

51:08.14
Bruce Anthony
And and yeah that enough. Yeah, no, it's not thing.

51:13.90
Emily Betsill
I was very very lucky that I had some the the resources to pay for help and even now after the pandemic I am able to outsource some things and that is not everybody's story I'm just I'm just lucky I mean that's really. I don't I think that the I don't think that I would be as stable in terms of like just rolling with all these things if I didn't have that ability to say hey, ah miss. So and so can you come over this Sunday and just like be here for like 5 hours while I just think.

51:48.65
Bruce Anthony
Yeah, yeah, so you have a strong support system now.

51:50.52
Emily Betsill
Sitting there. This is so I think I have a strong a very strong support system and having other moms I mean women friends are amazing and very necessary I think to all walk So like all parts of your life. But I feel like in your 40 s. With so many transitions and everybody's turning 40 and everybody has a different reason for it being hard. Um, it's been very valuable to have these connections and B and I were talking about this recently that like she and I unconditionally love each other. There is nothing that she or I could do This is unconditional. Love.

52:28.60
Bruce Anthony
Even.

52:29.39
Emily Betsill
We are stuck forever and I think that there's power in that and there's comfort and support in that that I'm very very lucky to have for 1000000000 years so

52:39.11
Bruce Anthony
That's Beautiful. So you you jumped on one of the questions I was going to ask about your support system. So I'm going to go with ah could you share something that that you've learned from your children. That shaped your perspective of life. Love and the importance of family.

52:57.50
Emily Betsill
Um, yes I'm trying to think of things that I can share that aren't too personal.

53:02.80
Bruce Anthony
Yeah, don't don't share anything too personal because you got a lot of legal names out here that I don't know if I'm gonna keep in or if I got to bleep out. There's a lot of anything.

53:10.19
Emily Betsill
Well I mean some of them are not legal names. Some of them were just their nicknames. But I um, my oldest has taught me to love and be patient. And to allow people to change and grow and become themselves without my judgment and I'm not sure that I would have that I'm not saying I wouldn't I'm saying that I think that's what Jay told me is to.

53:30.61
Bruce Anthony
A. Faith.

53:44.58
Emily Betsill
There are going to be times you're going to be terrified ah of a it's not a decision of who your child may become or what your child may face and you don't get to choose for the child and.

53:57.48
Bruce Anthony
Yeah, yeah.

54:01.97
Emily Betsill
I Think that that extends through all relationships. You don't get to choose your people's decisions but you do have to love them and you have to support them and you have to try to do it in a non-judgmental way and a non. Like no let me help you kind of wait because not everybody needs that and not everybody wants that in any particular situation I think D has taught me a level of kindness that I didn't know because he is Kind. He is.

54:30.76
Bruce Anthony
Are a.

54:34.45
Emily Betsill
Challenging in other ways and he so he's taught me a lot patience. But um, he's kind and the other thing that he's taught me is that sometimes you can choose to see the good not in a way that's going to hurt yourself. But you can choose to see the good in people. You don't have to be friends with them and they don't have to be around you but you can choose to see the good and I've watched him do that in lots of walks of life of where maybe we're not going to be around somebody anymore. Maybe that maybe a friend at school isn't unkind. And he doesn't give them excuses. He just gives them grace and I think that that's important. No, but.

55:17.30
Bruce Anthony
Um, it is yeah.

55:24.49
Emily Betsill
Noah has taught me to be silly and to slow down and just enjoy whatever the hell we're doing like present. Yeah and to not worry about all these little tiny things.

55:31.50
Bruce Anthony
To he's taught you how to be present.

55:39.90
Bruce Anthony
That's yeah, that's the one s word for the episode. That's what happened that's okay, that's the 1 episode. That's a one asked for the episode. That's beautiful. All right. The final question I have for you.

55:41.96
Emily Betsill
Don't matter because he doesn't give a shit about those little. Yeah I apologize. Um.

55:57.22
Bruce Anthony
Is like I said you're this accomplished Professional. You're a single mother raising 3 beautiful Children. You're navigating your way through it. But I would say listening to your story that you're being pretty successful at it. What advice would you give to other parents especially working parents. Ah, to excel at both their professional careers and at family life.

56:18.68
Emily Betsill
If you can find your people find your people because some days just being able to vent is is valuable enough to allow you to sleep and get up and do it.

56:26.84
Bruce Anthony
Are.

56:36.70
Bruce Anthony
Wow wow I I don't think I don't think we can end the episode any better than that Emily I want to I want to thank you for coming on and sharing your story. Ah it was fascinating.

56:36.63
Emily Betsill
Um.

56:44.29
Emily Betsill
You know.

56:54.69
Bruce Anthony
Memorable, inspiring and insightful. So thank you absolutely.

56:57.39
Emily Betsill
Thank I appreciate it.

01:20.73
Bruce Anthony
I know I always say wow at the end of every interview but wow um, it's amazing. People's backgrounds where they come from how they get to where they are where they where they are and Emily um. A remarkable human being coming from where she came from um the the childhood trauma that she had um and then to get where she is now and to be a good mother and balance professional life and work life I mean the personal life and the work life. Really remarkable and you got a commender and I want to thank her for coming on telling her story getting really personal and really letting us into a lot of things that she had to deal with growing up and being an adult. Um and just sharing. So I couldn't have asked for a better interview couldn't it ask for a more open person. So I personally want to say thank you? Um, these interviews they keep getting better and better. Um, not to to my own horn but 2 2 they keep getting better and better and I'm gonna continue on enter interviewing. And talking to interesting people and giving you guys really interesting content. Check out some of the other interviews if you if you haven't seen them I know everybody loves a sibling happy hour. But these interviews with these people. They're really really interesting. So go ahead and go check that out. Go ahead and follow us and subscribe on our.

02:48.29
Bruce Anthony
Youtube page share with all your friends. Ah, ah thank you again for listening and watching and until next time I'm going to holla.