"Exploring the Impact of a Therapist Refusing to Serve Male Clients: A Spirited Debate on Boundaries, Professionalism, and Listening"

Bruce Anthony
Freedom.

J. Aundrea
Freedom. Three threedom over cycle stays the same. Welcome. First of all, welcome. This is unsolicited perspectives. I am your host, Bruce Anthony. Thank you for listening and watching. Wherever you get your podcast and video podcasts, subscribe, share, like, comment and rate us. You can find us on Instagram, YouTube and Twitch at Unsolicited underscore Perspectives on Twitter and TikTok at Unsolicited underscore P-E-R.

J. Aundrea
Watch us live every Thursday night, 07:30 p.m. Eastern on YouTube and Twitch. Our audience continues to grow with each and every episode and I humbly thank you on today's episode, me and my sister, we get into it in a little bit, but all in good fun. First things first. Hey, what's up? So this episode today was a second part of episode that we filmed last week. I know typically we don't release the sibling happy hour on a Tuesday, but there will be no sibling happy hour this Friday. It'll be the regular show. So we just switched the shows this week because I think it's important for me to put this second part of the second sibling happy hour out there because it gives you guys a perspective into me and my sister's relationship.

J. Aundrea
So this is a spirited debate between me and my sister about a response a therapist was having to some of their male clients. And I took one position and my sister took another position. And it's an interesting conversation. It's a conversation in which you'll see two people who are in complete disagreement at the beginning come to an understanding. I feel like it's a conversation that most people should have when they have a differing of an opinion.

J. Aundrea
But granted, me and my sister have 37 years, a 37 year history and obviously we do the show. Y'all know, she's like one of my best friends, even though she says siblings can't be best friends, but okay, whatever. She's one of my best friends. She's one of the closest people in my life that I talk to that knows me right. And one of those people that I often talk about, like keeping smart people around me.

J. Aundrea
She's smarter than I am. So I listen to what she has to say. I had my own opinion about this particular subject. I will say that if anybody is triggered from our conversation, listen all the way through one, you definitely get a fantastic dynamic perspective into the dynamic of me and my sister's relationship. And you'll see how two people can talk to one another. They have different apparent opinions about something but have respect for one another and listen to one another as they speak. So please listen to this conversation. I feel like this is important conversation that me and my sister had.

J. Aundrea
I feel like it's important just not only for you guys to understand our relationship, but also because the subject matter is important. Once again, if you are triggered in any way from what we are talking about, or what gets said, please listen to the entire interview. Don't cut it off. Listen to it in its entirety to see the beginning, middle, and end, and then form your own opinion about the content and context of the conversation.

J. Aundrea
But without further ado, here we go. All right, so you sent me a TikTok. Was it this? It was during the weekend, and we had different opinions about it.

Bruce Anthony
Yeah.

J. Aundrea
And I'm just going to play it for the people out there.

Bruce Anthony
Now. This is a TikTok by a licensed clinical social worker. Her name is Nicole Lewis, and she actually tweeted this first, and then she made the TikTok. So this was on Twitter and Facebook first, and then she recorded, like, a video explanation on her TikTok.

J. Aundrea
All right, here we go.

C
Clients, because they'll come in my inbox, demanding me to prove my worth to them. All up in my email saying, what can you do for me? Nothing. There's absolutely nothing that I can do for you. Go find somebody else. Go play with somebody else. I'm not the one or the two, baby. We ain't going to do this. Not setting up no consultation or nothing to see if we're a good fit. Trying to see what type of treatment modalities I use if we mesh well together, just be in my inbox requiring this free emotional labor. Absolutely not.

C
Because now I'm sitting up here making a TikTok about how you all keep harming me because you're not helping me. I don't need to be working with you because you activate my nervous system. See, I already know that. And I know we're not going to do well together because we start working together. I'm still thinking about the email you send me when you try me. And I'm going to want my leg back because I know who I am, and it ain't good. So I'm just not going to see you all find somebody else to do it.

C
Found somebody else to do it, because I don't deserve that. I have been harmed enough for a lifetime. I don't need to be harmed by my clients either. That ain't fair. That ain't right. So I don't know what they can do, but they ain't going to be seeing me. I am now only working with black women who are overcoming perfectionism. That's it. We ain't doing anything else. And I ain't got to do number, stay blackened.

C
I am no longer seeing male clients.

J. Aundrea
Okay, so you sent me that.

Bruce Anthony
Yes.

J. Aundrea
Now, for all the people that don't know, I'm a fitness professional. I've been a personal trainer for the last 18 years, almost 20 years. I have taught seminars. I've taught other people how to be personal trainers. I've seen thousands of clients from all walks of life. Okay? And I'm also a blackmail. So I'm not coming at this without having some experience dealing with clients and trying to help them different.

J. Aundrea
Right. She's more on an emotional and mental level, and I'm more on a physical level, although I'm working with my clients on an emotional and mental level as well, but not nearly in the same category as a licensed therapist like Megan McKernan, who I interviewed, and the show was up earlier thank you. Earlier this week. Here are my problems with her. I have no issue if you are dealing with a client and you say to yourself, this isn't going to work out for us anymore, because I've done that.

J. Aundrea
I have literally fired clients. I fired a client a month ago. I said, this is not going to work out for us anymore. I feel like I care about this more than you do, so it's not worth my time and energy. But she's not doing that. What she's doing is she's cutting off, and I will say she's cutting off a population who probably need therapy the most and who are less likely to reach out for help.

Bruce Anthony
What population?

J. Aundrea
Men in general. Black men.

Bruce Anthony
Okay.

J. Aundrea
But more specifically, black men. The people that what she says. She's not dealing with men anymore. She's only dealing with black women. But she specifically spoke to black men. So that's what I'm going to speak to most black men, especially black men of my age, are not going to ask for help. Nine times out of ten, even though I come up here and I talk and support going to therapy and mental health, I can still have this combat within me saying, no, that's a weak move. Don't do that.

J. Aundrea
So when she is saying, I don't need you in my emails asking me about what techniques I'm going to use or how can I help you, excuse me, boo boo. That's what people do when they're asking and they are getting ready to invest money into something. If you go and you buy a television, you're going to ask what the specs are. When people contact the company that I work for and they're asking for personal trainers or they're asking for nutritionists, they want to know the qualifications and the backgrounds. They also want to know the techniques of which you'll use with them to help them reach their goals.

J. Aundrea
That's just selling yourself. If you don't want to sell yourself, then work for somebody else, right? Don't own your own practice. So that's my problem. It was people asking questions about how you're going to help them is not a negative thing. And also, you got to look at, once again, I'm pointing out the demographic of which she's cutting off the people who are less likely to ask for help. So those people who are less likely to ask for help may not know how to properly word that they need help because that's making themselves vulnerable. They're already making themselves vulnerable by contacting you. You, as a therapist, should recognize that in and of itself, that's a huge, major step just for them, for you to not like the way they come at you. It's not like they're calling you out your name. They're simply asking you, what can you do for them, what techniques can you do for them? And guess what? It is not a big deal to do a consultation.

J. Aundrea
I do a 15 minutes free consultation over the phone to conversate with the person, find out what their goals are, to see if it would be a good fit. And there are times that I say, I don't think it would be a good fit with me, but I know somebody else that would be a good fit for. I don't get pissed off because there's not a match. Or they ask me specific questions by saying, well, I don't want to do this and I don't want to do that. Well, okay, these are my techniques. This is what I use.

J. Aundrea
I can adapt them to help you along to make you feel more comfortable. If that doesn't work, then there's somebody else. But I'm not going to cut people off. I'm not going to cut off a segment of the population. It would essentially be the equivalent of what she's doing is essentially morbidly obese. People coming to my door saying, I need help. I need to lose weight to save my life. And me saying, I don't want to deal with you. Because the times that I have dealt with you, the majority of the time that I have dealt with people who are morbidly obese it's too tough to get you all to eat, right?

J. Aundrea
I don't have the patience to deal with it. And there's nothing wrong with being a specialist. If she says that she just wants to be a specialist now, cool, you could be a specialist. But to attack a whole segment of the population because she brings it up that she has issues outside of therapy that's being triggered, that's something that you need to deal within yourself. You don't go out and attack a whole group because you haven't dealt with the issues that you got to deal with. Then I have to question, well, how good of a therapist are you if you haven't dealt with your stuff first? I know you're making that face, but once again, I talked to Megan, and that was one of the things that she talked about. Like, she still actively is doing therapy to better herself because she knows that that helps better her clients.

J. Aundrea
So if you know that you have this trigger, why not go and deal with it? As opposed to just saying, I'm not going to deal with any of these people because there are some people that are reaching out to you that won't trigger you. But you've already said, I'm not going to deal with you. So that's my issue. I don't have an issue look, I don't have an issue with her maintaining her peace if she was seeing a client and that client was just what did she say it was activating her nervous system.

J. Aundrea
If that's the case and you've been seeing that client and it doesn't work out, cool. But to cut them off before even getting started because you connect that to issues that you have in your own life and you just say, I don't want to deal with it. But instead of just saying I don't want to deal with it, you attack them by saying that they're the problem. I have an issue with that. Go ahead. I know you wrote down notes. I know you got a rebuttal. I know you got some things you want to say.

Bruce Anthony
I don't know if we could say rebuttal, but I do have some things to say. Firstly, she said and also had in the caption that she's no longer taking male clients. She never said anything about race. She said that she is specializing in black female clients with issues with perfectionism. That's her specialty.

J. Aundrea
She said black males at the beginning.

Bruce Anthony
Of the table never said black men. She said I am no longer taking male clients. You heard that because you heard a black woman angry at men and you heard black men never said I am not taking black male clients. She said I am not when I.

J. Aundrea
Heard that, but okay.

Bruce Anthony
You did not listen to it again on your free time.

J. Aundrea
You think I'm not when I am.

Bruce Anthony
You go right on ahead. Because she never said it. And even the caption over the video says no longer taking male clients.

J. Aundrea
She said that at the end.

Bruce Anthony
At the end she said the first sentence she said was I am no longer taking male clients. That was the first sentence she said okay.

J. Aundrea
She said blackmail somewhere in there, but okay. Male clients never said it. All right.

Bruce Anthony
So here is my issue. You are giving a lot of benefit of the doubt to these males that are in her inbox. What she said was you are in my inbox asking me to prove my worth and give free emotional labor. She said you are not.

J. Aundrea
She said that afterwards. What she said was she said you.

Bruce Anthony
Are not asking for consultations.

J. Aundrea
No. She said no. You want free consultations and all that.

Bruce Anthony
Not what she said. Again.

J. Aundrea
No.

Bruce Anthony
I listened to it many times, friend, because I wanted to make sure that my rebuttals I got my notes. You heard what you wanted to hear.

J. Aundrea
That's not what I wanted to hear. I had no idea my initial listen to. I had no idea what she was talking about. You just sent it. I thought it was going to be something funny. Yes, it was not funny.

Bruce Anthony
As soon as you got in your feelings about it, then you started projecting onto her things that she never said. What she said was you're not asking me for a consultation to see what modalities I use you're in my inbox questioning my qualifications.

J. Aundrea
I could have sworn she said the opposite of what you just said. No, I just heard it again. You know what? There's going to be people.

Bruce Anthony
That's what's so interesting about her video and both of our responses to her video, because I heard what she said. You heard what you thought she said.

J. Aundrea
Look, the people heard it.

Bruce Anthony
I want you to pause this recording, go back and listen to that TikTok again.

J. Aundrea
You know what? That's what we're going to do. Damn it. That's exactly what we do. You all hold on for you all, it's not going to be really holding on, because I'm going to just pause it and jump right back into it. But I'm about to listen to this again. Give me a second. All right, so I listened to it over again, and my sister was right. She does not say black male. She says male. I did put that out there because I literally just had a conversation with a therapist, and we were talking about me in therapy and black men in therapy in general, and how it's really tough for black men in general.

J. Aundrea
People in general. Right? Let's not get specific in gender or race or anything like that. People in general. But me being as a black man, it's like, yo, it's really hard to ask for help. So when I got that, especially after having a conversation with a therapist, when I got that, I did get in my feelings, and I read and heard blackmail. When she didn't say blackmail, she just said mail.

Bruce Anthony
Yes.

J. Aundrea
There's also a part in the video where she talks about how them emailing her and all up in her email box, and if she cuts to them not she doesn't say I or them when she says not asking about consultations or modalities work out or anything. She doesn't specify if she's saying that she will not do that or if they're not asking for that. You heard that as I didn't hear it.

Bruce Anthony
That's what she's saying in another video. She's more clear, but she's saying they're not in her she says in another video, I don't have a problem asking answering questions about my treatment, modalities my rates.

J. Aundrea
That was the video after that video.

Bruce Anthony
Yes.

J. Aundrea
Okay. So I'm going to say that she got some she obviously got some backlash. I heard that she got some backlash unwarranted back. I can be heated and angry that she's turning her back on male clients, because I think male clients, it's tough for males. But she ain't the only therapist out there. We can go get another therapist. And some men were actually attacking her. But I will also say I didn't see any follow up. And so if you're just going off of that video, that video is not clear of who she's no, it's clear because it's clear to you because you got a response.

Bruce Anthony
You saw the second even before the response it was.

J. Aundrea
But you don't think to me. You don't think you're putting in your personal bias in that as well, just like I did? No, you're clear headed, and I understand AAV e. I don't understand a ve.

Bruce Anthony
And I also understand context clues. She said, not asking for a consultation or about what treatment modalities I use or whether we'll get along, just in my inbox asking me to prove my worth.

J. Aundrea
But there was a cut. There was a cut.

Bruce Anthony
There's always a cut.

J. Aundrea
All right, but there was a cut.

Bruce Anthony
Something else in that cut?

J. Aundrea
She didn't specify. She didn't specify.

Bruce Anthony
I'm not going to have a conversation about semantics because we're going to get off the point.

J. Aundrea
Okay.

Bruce Anthony
One, she didn't say anything about black males.

J. Aundrea
She said males, but still black is included in that. So I'm going to take that win.

Bruce Anthony
Number one, it is her private practice, and she has a right to create whatever boundary she wants in her private practice. I think if, for example, you were a therapist and you were raised by a parent who was addicted to drugs, and it is triggering for you to work with the drug addicted patients, that your specialty may be something completely else. That's completely fine to say I don't work with drug addicted patients.

Bruce Anthony
It's triggering for me. It's a boundary that I've created.

J. Aundrea
But that's not an attack against drug addicted patients. That right there is not an attack.

Bruce Anthony
It is here's where it becomes it's not an attack. She's saying, don't play with me. Okay? Because here's, let me finish.

J. Aundrea
I just opened my mouth. I didn't say anything.

Bruce Anthony
And this interaction we're having now is a primary example of why she does not take male clients. Because the questioning of women's credentials, their expertise, their experience, the dismissal of their ideas, the ignoring them in academia, talking over them at work, they're the least paid first fire. We tired. We're tired. We're tired of people coming into our inboxes asking us, why should I hire you over another therapist? Honey, I don't know.

Bruce Anthony
Why don't you try calling another therapist and figuring it out? I don't need to expend any of my emotional labor. That's what my profile on my website is for. If you saw something that you liked on there, that's why you reached out to me. How about you come and approach me and ask me, can I set up a consultation so that I can get some more information? And do you know what proved her point? More is the response.

Bruce Anthony
Is the response the death threats, the essay threats, the fact that men are getting together and reporting her en masse to her licensing board yeah. Does nothing but prove her point.

J. Aundrea
Yes. Look, hold on. Your argument was about her creating space and boundaries. If you remember correctly if you remember correctly, I said she has every right to do that, and that there are people in my industry who are specialists. I have a problem with that. I had a problem with her basically saying she did not say, I've never been a therapist for men, I never will be for a therapist for men. She was basically like, I'm never going to deal with men again.

Bruce Anthony
That's what I had male clients correct.

J. Aundrea
And put the blame on. The reason why I'm not taking male clients is because of you all.

Bruce Anthony
Yes. And guess what improved her point? Well, you saw it as an attack.

J. Aundrea
I did.

Bruce Anthony
Her tone. You didn't like her tone? But she never said anything derogatory.

J. Aundrea
Yes, she did.

Bruce Anthony
When does she call them a name? When does she call them out their name? She just said you all in. Your inboxes asking tone can't be derogatory. You don't get to tone police. Her response to people inbox and being harmful.

J. Aundrea
Let me ask you a rebuttal. How would you feel if this was a white therapist that said, hey, I don't want to deal with any black clients because I don't want to hear about no woke or Black Lives Matter?

Bruce Anthony
That's not the same. These are people in her inbox being harmful intentionally. Okay, you don't like my ideology. That's not the same as me being harmful to you because you don't see it as harmful because you are prioritizing your own feeling over it, over the actual harm that she's experiencing.

J. Aundrea
Hold on. Look, I'm not saying that she hasn't had harm. Right, right.

Bruce Anthony
I'm not saying that you insinuated that she isn't in therapy herself.

J. Aundrea
How do you know that my therapist I did not say that she wasn't in therapy.

Bruce Anthony
You said that that's a personal problem and she should go get therapy for first of all, how do you know she's not? That, to me, is an attack. You are attacking her credibility as a therapist, which is exactly what the men in her inbox are doing, which is why she's not taking any more male clients.

J. Aundrea
I hear everything what you're saying, and me defending myself has me coming off as this misogynistic pig that's attacking women. And I can't win in this argument because I'm not going to beat you when it comes to women's rights. I'm not a woman. I don't know what it's like to be a woman.

Bruce Anthony
Believe her.

J. Aundrea
I didn't say that. I didn't believe her. I never said I didn't believe her. I never said that. She didn't have the space to say, this isn't for me. I said she shouldn't be saying the attack was I'm not seeing you all no more because of what you all did.

Bruce Anthony
How is she attacking them? She is making a response, setting a boundary to harm that has been inflicted.

J. Aundrea
Okay? She's punishing the many because of a few punishing.

Bruce Anthony
She's not she is boundary. She is setting a boundary. First of all, these are men that clearly they would not have meshed well as therapists and clients.

J. Aundrea
All of them. All of them.

Bruce Anthony
And she has now decided to set a boundary.

J. Aundrea
My problem is she's doing all it is too triggering. My problem is she's doing all and all lives matter.

Bruce Anthony
And that's the same argument, not the same thing. Not all men. If five men were like the men in her inbox and five men weren't, I don't know who's who. So I have to protect myself. If I understand that this is something triggering for me, I'm closing the door on everybody because I don't know who's who. Your analogy of I don't like, I won't work with somebody that's obese, because last time I worked with somebody that was obese today, that's valid if you.

J. Aundrea
Think about punishing the next person for what people did before that, that's not valid.

Bruce Anthony
If you ran in to clients or potential clients that are obese and would not take eating right seriously, and you made a decision in your private practice because it was too much emotional labor for you to be more invested in their health than them.

J. Aundrea
Okay, so I guess the real reason why I got upset is her tone. Her tone? Yes. But like I said, I looked at it as what I do for a living.

Bruce Anthony
Yes.

J. Aundrea
I just want to help people. Let me finish off. I just want to help people. So I do the hiring. I hire all the fitness professionals. If I see they don't have the same passion of wanting to help people, I can't rock with them. Right. Like, you got to have not the same personality as me, but the same drive and determination to help people.

Bruce Anthony
Fair.

J. Aundrea
I feel like that's how everybody should be. Okay. But this is a problem in my personal life for a lot of things. I feel like everybody should be as empathetic and caring.

Bruce Anthony
Well, you have an issue with setting up boundaries, all right, look overextend yourself.

J. Aundrea
Look, this is my show. We ain't going to be putting all my business out there. All right? I do have a little bit of an issue with setting boundaries. And those close to me know because I'm always putting myself in a situation. And as my old friends from high school will remind me, that I used to say, I need to find some way to wiggle my way out the situation. Because I would always get myself in a situation that I needed to get out of. Yes, but the helping people is that this is the reason why I went to school to be a teacher. So when it aggravates me, when somebody enters a field where they're there to help people, like cops and doctors and EMTs and firefighters and therapists and all that stuff, when you go into a field to help people, you're supposed to be helping people no matter what.

J. Aundrea
No, well, not no matter what. Black women who deal with perfectionism, that's a life coach.

Bruce Anthony
She does do coaching as well. She specializes in black women who suffer from this ideology of perfectionism. She does help people.

J. Aundrea
I absolutely believe that she does help people.

Bruce Anthony
Unreal to think you can help every single person that crosses your path.

J. Aundrea
Well, I got Superman complex, so it is what it is, right?

Bruce Anthony
The difference between and Superman always makes the really wrong choice.

J. Aundrea
No, he does not. Superman always makes the right choice. We've had this conversation.

Bruce Anthony
I'm not going to get into that, Lois. Or he comes up with some new power that suddenly he can turn back time. It's ridiculous.

J. Aundrea
Okay, just one time in a movie. Okay.

Bruce Anthony
At any rate, she does help people. She helps black women who are dealing with perfectionism. It is unreasonable to think that she will help 100% of the people who cross their path. The difference mental health and wellness is the same as your physical health. You got a vibe with your doctor, your general practitioner. You got a vibe with your dentist. You vibe. And if you meet a therapist I have gone through a lot of therapists before. I found my current therapist and my current psychiatrist.

Bruce Anthony
I went through a lot and I did not vibe with them. And I can release them. They can also release me. They are also human beings.

J. Aundrea
That was not my argument. You're moving the goalpost. That's not my argument.

Bruce Anthony
What is your argument?

J. Aundrea
No, I didn't look, I can't defend myself because you brought issues dealing with women, and you're a woman, and I can't speak to that, right. I can't say, Well, I deal with that all the time. I don't deal with it all the time being a woman. So I don't know that perspective. I can't speak on that. So I just need to shut the hell up when it comes to that. I know from that aspect I need to shut the hell up. I'm just talking about somebody who's in the field to help. To help, right?

Bruce Anthony
Yes.

J. Aundrea
It bothers me when people turn their back. It bothers me when people in the fitness industry say, well, I only work with athletes. That's all I do. Like, I'm not in this to try and help people lose weight. I was like, athletes. Well, I mean, yeah, I mean, that's where the money is. But these people didn't need to lose the weight. That's where the gratification is to really change lives.

Bruce Anthony
I think that's unfair.

J. Aundrea
Okay? I respect that.

Bruce Anthony
An athlete's body is their whole life, their career, and I think it's unfair to say that the practice that she's chosen, the specialty that she's chosen and who she's choosing to treat because you're not included in that group, that somehow it's not rewarding.

J. Aundrea
No.

Bruce Anthony
Or that everyone let me rephrase that everyone is not included in that group, that somehow it's not rewarding or somehow she's not doing the work.

J. Aundrea
Okay, that's an argument. That's a very valid argument, and I agree with that. But that's also not what I said. What I said was that this wasn't her initial. Thing. She's turned off by it because of some interactions that she's had with men. So it wasn't something like she jumped out, she got out of school, and she was like, this is what I'm specializing in. She was a therapist for everyone. Then all of a sudden no. She was like, I'm a therapist for not everyone. I'm not seeing male clients. She said not seeing male clients anymore.

Bruce Anthony
Yeah, she's not seeing male clients anymore.

J. Aundrea
That means she was seeing male clients. And it was this experience. But I bet you not all of the male clients were triggering for her. Probably not. So that's what bothers me. There is a male client, and maybe I'm personally projection projecting. Right. Because she seems like somebody that I would talk to, and I think that's really what we're getting to the heart of the matter. She seems like somebody that I would talk to.

J. Aundrea
Smart, intelligent woman that I know could empathize with whatever struggle that I would go through, because it's easier for me to talk to women than it is for men. Right. It's just it just is. It's the reason why I always had a female best friend all throughout life. It's easy for me to talk to women, and it's for men. So I'm looking at it from the standpoint of she could be my therapist. And then all of a sudden and I had a friend that this happened to, all of a sudden, the therapist just says, no, I'm done with this. And my friend's therapist just ghosted her.

J. Aundrea
Just ghosted her. And I was like, Aren't you still seeing the therapist? No, she doesn't respond back to my emails or anything. I was like, y'all been working together for, like, six months. She just ghosted you. That pissed me off. So this pissed me off. It's like, if you're in it to help people, you help people. If you made a commitment to help a person, you help a person. If somewhere along the line that person starts to agitate you, you don't just kick them to the curb. You explain to them, look, I'm having some issues with some of the ways that you're going about things.

J. Aundrea
We need to make changes. The person that I fired, I didn't fire just out of the blue. I let them know ahead of time, hey, look, I'm having an issue of me caring more about this than you. You need to be doing these things the next session. Did you do the thing? Did you do the homework over the weekend? No, I didn't do it. Once again, I have to remind you, I should not care about you more than you. You came to me. I didn't come to you.

J. Aundrea
I'm here to help. You got to play your part. Okay, I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it next time. Did you do it? No. As I said before, I can't care about this more than you. I'm not going to continue on to put the time and effort in. I think this is where we've run our course. I gave that person multiple opportunities in the situation with my friend and their therapist. The therapist just ghosted in the situation where she I don't know any particulars because I don't know her, right?

J. Aundrea
I don't know her. But if she's no longer seeing male clients and she was seeing male clients, it's not out of the realm of the possibility that she walked in one day and told some of her male clients, I'm no longer seeing male clients.

Bruce Anthony
But it's also just as fair. What she said was, I'm no longer accepting male clients. That's what she said. She didn't say she was releasing her current male clients.

J. Aundrea
She didn't say that she wasn't either.

Bruce Anthony
But the fact that you assume is not what she said. She is not accepting any more male clients.

J. Aundrea
That is, let's just say, didn't release it.

Bruce Anthony
And you're also making the assumption that for male clients who reach out to her and really want to have information and resources, that even though she's saying, well, I am not accepting clients, but here are some other resources or other therapists I can put you in touch with, you're acting like she's not doing that work. She was specifically addressing the male clients that get into her inbox and question her qualifications in a harmful way and activate her nervous system. And because of that, she is no longer accepting male clients. She never said anything about her current clients.

Bruce Anthony
She never said anything about she has no problem giving people.

J. Aundrea
Can I ask this? Is it possible because she said some stuff in her past, right? Triggering some stuff from her past. Is it possible that in these emails, right? Because through text and emails, there's misinterpretations all the time.

Bruce Anthony
Yes.

J. Aundrea
Is it possible that she's reading something that triggered her, much like I did when I heard black males and it was just males, right. Is it possible that she's being triggered by something that that is not the intention not to saying that all of them are like that, because obviously from the backlash, some of them are like that. Which, by the way, who would take time to harass somebody? If you're not really trying to get into therapy, you got some real issues.

J. Aundrea
That didn't even cross my mind. People would just be harassing her. Just to harass her. Okay, all right. There are people out there to do that. Cool. I wish I could be the polite police and just go smacking everybody. But can it also be that she's reading something that is not the tone? Because I know from experience of people having gym anxiety, right? And it takes people a certain amount of time to work themselves up, to talk to a fitness professional, to ask for help. And oftentimes they don't know the right words to use or the right way to ask for help. And technically, there is no right way to ask for help. You just ask, right?

J. Aundrea
A lot of these people might not know how to ask for help properly. Like, if I emailed her, I would absolutely be like, hey, I read your profile. I think we could be a good match. But I wanted to know, these are some of my issues, and how could you go about helping me deal with these issues? That's what I would say. But once again, I have a background in people asking me sort of something similar. A lot of people out here don't have that background. A lot of people out here talking about, Yo, Shorty, what can you do for me? I'm trying to get some help.

J. Aundrea
I think that did nobody say, Yo, shorty?

Bruce Anthony
Nobody does. And that's why I paused a bit. I was trying to decide if I was going to let it go or not, but then the timing to make a joke passed, so I just moved on from it. I think that's fair. Here's the issue with that, though. Even if that's the case that she's reading into something that's not there, I don't think that that's the case because there was another TikTok Er who just implored black men to get therapy, and they got her fired.

J. Aundrea
Really?

Bruce Anthony
Yes. That was last year.

J. Aundrea
Okay.

Bruce Anthony
Either telling them to go get therapy or telling them, Fine, don't. Either way, they're going to try to get you fired. The point is, don't critique men. Right. But even if that's the case, even if she is reading something in these emails, that is not the writer's intent. Even if that's the case, there is still nothing wrong with her prioritizing her own wellness in her own practice and saying, my specialty is going to be black women suffering from perfectionism.

Bruce Anthony
This has nothing to do with my current clients. But moving forward, I will not be accepting male clients. It's her practice, and she can do that. People can have a problem with it. Also, I think you make a fair point. What about that man out there that you could have helped? But I think it's also at her discretion if that man still reaches out to her anyway, and she does feel like this is somebody I feel like I could help, and that would be open to it. I feel like it's up to her to make the decision of whether or not to take that person on as a client.

Bruce Anthony
But again, she has autonomy in this.

J. Aundrea
But that was never my argument.

Bruce Anthony
It's unrealistic to think that she can help everybody, that she would mesh with everybody, but leaving herself so open that it causes harm to her is not fair to her. It's okay for her to have a boundary there.

J. Aundrea
No, you're right. Look, hey, that was not my argument. My argument was just like, you've been seeing some male clients, but I don't know what the percentage of the numbers are right. It could just be a few, but a few could just be enough. Yeah. So I can honestly admit that I was a little triggered.

Bruce Anthony
Those text messages subsequent to me sending you a hot. And I said, Right now, this is a show topic.

J. Aundrea
No, I'm still hot. Like, it's hot physically, I'm hot. It's hot right now. I'm sweating. I don't know. And it is my personal thing. Right. I do have this in the position.

Bruce Anthony
Of those potential plants. Yes.

J. Aundrea
No, not only that, I'm putting myself because I could be both. I could see myself as both as a client and as a therapist. Right. Because that's kind of what I do for a living. And I wouldn't turn my back on somebody initially that needed my help. But once again, and it's often gotten me in trouble in my professional life, I got this Superman professional and personal, I got this Superman complex. Like, people out here that don't know, I got a Superman tattoo, I got a Superman portrait that's above my bed. I got Superman posters. I'm a huge Superman fan.

J. Aundrea
And I also have a little bit of a complex because I'm always trying to help and save everybody. In my lifetime, I have been Captain Savaho more than a few times.

Bruce Anthony
But in the words of the Immortal.

J. Aundrea
Project Pat, don't save her. She don't want to be saved.

Bruce Anthony
She don't want to be saved. I learned that now they tell people, family members who have a family member who is addicted to drugs, that they have to save themselves. And you have to draw that boundary of, if you don't get help, the help you need. Today, I'm not dealing with you no more. It has to be a certain level of accountability on the client themselves to approach you right. And if you don't approach me right, we got a problem.

J. Aundrea
All right? There have been people that I turned down without even meeting with them because they approached me, and I was like, oh, you don't need help. You just want to be around me and be trained by me because you think I'm attractive. And I was like, that's cool and all, but no, I'm here to help. Yeah, so that's your initial, so I get it.

Bruce Anthony
Once again, ladies and gentlemen, project Pata.

J. Aundrea
It all right. That was intense conversation, by the way. I love you.

Bruce Anthony
I love you too, bro. Yeah, that's it. We can disagree. That's fine. We can have a conversation about it. And luckily, project Patel.

J. Aundrea
Project pata. But you know what? For those people out there that don't understand, we've come a long way because it was a couple of years ago, we could not have these conversations, be on such opposing sides, and not come at the end and just be like, Cool. We would be so far in our stances that we would just be like, you know what? I holler at you when I holler at you, it would never be no beef. It was never no beef. No, but it was just like, I'm too hot to talk anymore.

J. Aundrea
I need to calm down. And this was one of the situations where we didn't do that. And I want to commend myself. I do. I want to commend myself, all right? Because it was one of the situations where you were proving me wrong, and I was like, Nah. Oh, yeah, you're right. And I actually listened, and I didn't stay firm in my stance and not budge. I listened to what you had to say, and I think that's growth.

Bruce Anthony
And honestly, I didn't want to approach it as a situation like I'm trying to quote, unquote, prove you wrong. That wasn't my intention. My intention was you have viewed it through your lens, through a very triggered lens. Go back and listen to what she's actually trying to get across and see if that doesn't change your mind. And this is also another reason why I said this is going to be a good show topic, because it also should have given you a couple of days to mull it over.

Bruce Anthony
You still had your site, and as soon as we were going over the topics for the day, and you were like, all right, I'm going to do therapist no longer accepts black men. And I was like, Maybe we shouldn't do that.

J. Aundrea
Ladies and gentlemen. That damn show was how I was going to introduce the topic. And she was like, Maybe not say it quite that way. And I was like, you're right.

Bruce Anthony
Because.

J. Aundrea
I'm going to get into it all. Power to her. I'm sorry that she's going through this. Men like you all are absolutely proven her point, and you're making it bad for you know what is really pissing me off? You're making it bad for people like me who wouldn't come at her like that. Even though I was upset, I would not try to ruin her business. I'm about to start cussing on here, but this ain't the Uncensored. And we need to say it. They some lames some lame ass dudes, man.

Bruce Anthony
Congratulations.

J. Aundrea
You all soft, man. For real. That pisses me off. Like, you all for real soft dudes. And anybody that got an issue, you all could step to me in the street like, yeah.

Bruce Anthony
And that's a man tantrum.

J. Aundrea
Look, I welcome that. I quote 50 Cent all the time. I'm not a person out there looking for a problem. But if you want a problem, no problem.

Bruce Anthony
No problem.

J. Aundrea
No problem. But anyway, on that note, Jay, what you want to tell the people out there?

Bruce Anthony
Too blessed to be stressed.

J. Aundrea
I'd like that. Too blessed to be stressed. Okay.

Bruce Anthony
All right.

J. Aundrea
I like that. And on that note, is that what did you say?

Bruce Anthony
See, I thought of something.

J. Aundrea
Yeah, you did. It was good, too. Let's see if you remember it next week. And on that note, can I get my sign off? You keep cutting me off the last.

Bruce Anthony
Word.

J. Aundrea
I swear to God, I'm about to punch you through the screen on that note. Al Hollow. Thank you for listening to Unsolicited Perspectives with Bruce Anthony. Please subscribe like comment, share and donate donations. Help us keep giving you this free content each and every week. Until next time. Ali Bartheless freedom freedom over fame. Freedom over fame. The cycle stays the same. Freedom stays the same.