Embracing Authenticity & Living Unapologetically: Rick Clemons on Coming Out, LGBTQ+, and Life

00:03.90
Bruce Anthony
On today's episode I'll be interviewing Rick Clemens he's a professional life and entrepreneurial coach. We're going to be talking about the lgbt plus community entrepreneurialship and coming out. But first things first.

00:24.99
Bruce Anthony
So like I said I'll be interviewing Rick Clemens Rick is a certified professional life and entrepreneurial coach he specializes in late in life coming out sexuality and lgbtq plus life and entrepreneurialship. Ah he has 2 podcasts that he does life un closeted. And 40 plus gay men gay talk. He's also an author frankly, my dear I'm gay a late blooming god to coming out so I'm really excited. Everybody knows how much of an advocate I try to be for the lgbt q plus community um to my knowledge.

01:01.46
Bruce Anthony
I have not interviewed anybody in that community yet to my knowledge or the sole purpose of other interview had nothing to do with their sexuality gender things of that nature. So I'm going to be specifically talking to Rick about the lgp t plus community ah people coming out. He helps them with his coaching um and being uncloted uncloted doesn't have to mean specifically being a part of the lgbt ah plus community sometimes it's just yeah at the job that you hate and you're miserable in life and you just don't realize it but you're stuck in a closet. So he helps coach people out of that stuff. But that's enough of me rambling enough of me deadly daddling as my sister says that I love to use that expression now I'm going to start using it a lot more but let's get to the interview.

00:06.11
Bruce Anthony
I'm here with Rick Clemons Clemens author podcaster coach and father Rick Clemons thank you for coming on the show today I really appreciate it.

00:13.73
Rick Clemons
Oh well, thanks for having me I'm looking forward to this conversation and hopefully you know giving your audience some some inspiration and guidance on how they can truly be who they want to be in the world.

00:25.11
Bruce Anthony
I think that's important finding out who you are in the world. It's a journey that never ends I'm just turned 43 and I'm and I'm still evolving I feel like if you're not yeah I was talking to my system in this weird area where I'm not young anymore. But I'm not.

00:33.78
Rick Clemons
Um, oh you're a baby. You're a baby. Ah.

00:42.42
Rick Clemons
Right? right? for sure.

00:44.86
Bruce Anthony
Old I'm just there. Ah but enough about me, let's get to you So Can you share with me and my audience your personal journey of coming out and how it inspired you to become a coach. And an advocate for the L G B T Q Plus community.

01:04.00
Rick Clemons
Sure I I actually came out at 36 officially came out at 36 um after being married for 13 years to a really lovely woman I have 2 biological daughters. Of course there are now young adults themselves and um.

01:17.68
Bruce Anthony
Yeah, he.

01:21.22
Rick Clemons
I had gone back in the closet at nineteen I had told my parents I was gay or thought I was gay I wasn't like convinced at that point I knew I had these same sex attractions and all that sort of stuff yet I wasn't ready.

01:34.41
Bruce Anthony
Okay.

01:36.50
Rick Clemons
I Mean to be really honest man I just wasn't I wasn't ready I wasn't strong enough to be myself I had some religious beliefs hovering over me saying I was going to hell and all these sort of things and so I did what I needed to do I'm like okay, let's let's do this. Let's be who everybody else expects me to be.

01:44.00
Bruce Anthony
Good. Yeah.

01:53.18
Rick Clemons
And I actually feel very blessed by that because had I come out that would have been 19163 sometime in that range I probably wouldn't be having this conversation with you because it was at the beginning of the aids epidemic I was very naive sexually and everything so I probably would have done some stupid stuff and then you know.

01:58.10
Bruce Anthony
A. Right? and.

02:11.81
Rick Clemons
Knock on wood praise god all that stuff I'm here and even though there was a lot of pain that came at 36 and breaking up ah a family and and all that as the movie title says the kids are all right? They're great. My daughters are amazing. Lovely young open minded women. Um.

02:13.90
Bruce Anthony
Right.

02:22.52
Bruce Anthony
Please.

02:29.95
Rick Clemons
My ex-wife and I had a pretty good relationship for quite a few years and then other things got in the way and I wouldn't say we have a horrible relationship. We just we don't have any reason to interact so but um, it guided me to this because I realized there's a lot of this pain going on in the world.

02:37.40
Bruce Anthony
Right up.

02:46.27
Bruce Anthony
A.

02:48.69
Rick Clemons
And when I started getting that itch like we do at forty some years old been there done that man um to go something else I need something else I had already been exposed to coaching I'd had a couple of coaches myself and the message kept being you need to be a coach. You need to be a coach. You need to be a coach.

03:04.74
Bruce Anthony
Yeah.

03:08.24
Rick Clemons
And I finally took the risk when I got laid off at my last job I'm like okay we're going to go do it and that's what kind of was the inspiration and I'm very blessed from 2006 to present day I've had a thriving coaching practice I actually coach for another company as well as their lead coach and I'm just.

03:27.50
Bruce Anthony
That it.

03:27.29
Rick Clemons
I Love what I get to do and I get to like lives and get to not only help people come out of the closet but I help people come out of whatever closet it is in their life that they're trying to come out of.

03:37.93
Bruce Anthony
That's pretty cool I want to backtrack a little bit so you said that you came out previously and then went back into the closet because you said you were unsure. Um, that's the first that that I've heard of something like that. Um, one of my I'm not going to out my family but she's out. Ah my favorite aunt is gay and I talked to her all the time and I said when did you know and she was like I knew when I was eight nine years old in the back of the station wagon looking at the women as we were leaving the beach like I knew.

04:01.82
Rick Clemons
On.

04:12.47
Rick Clemons
Oh.

04:15.16
Bruce Anthony
But I was like you also like dated guys. Yes, it was the seventy s and early eighty s that's kind of what you did. So you said you came out went back in when did you know? Okay I'm definitely gay because you obviously you got married and you had daughter was going to be people.

04:21.55
Rick Clemons
Yep.

04:29.76
Rick Clemons
Right? hip.

04:34.56
Bruce Anthony
There's going to be people that that those people that argue oh this. It's all a choice. They're not born this way which we obviously know that that's not the case but when when did you say to yourself I'm ready to be my.

04:39.56
Rick Clemons
Right? No, it's not the case at all.

04:51.45
Bruce Anthony
Authentic self right? right? exactly.

04:53.38
Rick Clemons
Well, it was ah it was all there all along I mean I knew at seven or eight years old that I was attracted to men but I was being held back by a belief system. So when I say I kind of you know, went back in you know I was unsure I was unsure of the way forward. Because I had all these people tell me I was going to hell and everything this is what I'm not proud of even as I moved into that space and got married I was never faithful. I was never faithful because I was trying to survive and some people say you're an asshole. Okay I'm an asshole i'm.

05:11.46
Bruce Anthony
Um, yeah.

05:20.90
Bruce Anthony
A a.

05:28.79
Rick Clemons
I will own that badge right? But until you've stood in this asshole shoes. Please kindly rethink what you're thinking of me because there's torture. There's demons within you That's like this isn't who I am but I'm putting on this front and so to your question when I decided that it was like I couldn't do this anymore.

05:29.25
Bruce Anthony
Right.

05:42.51
Bruce Anthony
Ah.

05:45.45
Bruce Anthony
A.

05:47.64
Rick Clemons
Was at 36 when I I had a unique experience with a guy in London and it actually didn't involve any sex. It was like we spent the night together. But there was a deeper connection. There was that thing that everybody says they want in a relationship right? Oh I want connection.

05:56.69
Bruce Anthony
Yeah, um, yeah.

06:01.31
Bruce Anthony
Right.

06:04.73
Rick Clemons
Want that intimacy but it doesn't have to be wham bam. Thank you ma'am or sir and that's exactly what didn't happen. It did not happen. In fact, when I speak about this on stage I use this line so that was the night that there was no sex I fell in love and I fell apart because I didn't know what to do with it.

06:09.85
Bruce Anthony
Um, yeah, ah.

06:17.76
Bruce Anthony
He didn't know what to do with that.

06:24.40
Rick Clemons
But that was also the moment that I realized you know what this is my this is this is my north Star I Finally can see something beyond the sneaking around the hooking up all this stuff I can see that there's more to this and that was the moment that I'm like okay.

06:28.67
Bruce Anthony
And.

06:41.62
Rick Clemons
And know it's gonna be tough. It's gonna be rough. It's gonna be hard. But if I don't do this now when am I going to do this.

06:48.41
Bruce Anthony
Right? Yeah, okay, that's cool. So your work focuses on individuals embracing their authenticity and living Unapologetically I Really love that. Ah.

06:55.88
Rick Clemons
Um, yep, absolutely.

07:01.64
Bruce Anthony
What are your So what are some common challenges people face when it comes to embracing their true selves and how do you guide them through this process.

07:08.60
Rick Clemons
Well, the biggest thing I'm embracing your true self is you got to get the noise out of your head from everybody else, you got to quit living by everybody else's expectations and whether it's coming out of the closet about your sexuality or saying hey I want to start a podcast but people are going to think I'm crazy.

07:13.36
Bruce Anthony
Yeah, yeah.

07:26.10
Rick Clemons
Or I'm going to leave my job because I want to go do something that has more meaning. There's always going to be somebody. That's throwing shade at you. It's just going to happen right? So the first step and I've done this thousands of times as a coach at this point is you got to let go of everybody else's expectations and you got to start living by your own.

07:28.37
Bruce Anthony
Yes, yes.

07:43.68
Bruce Anthony
Nay.

07:45.34
Rick Clemons
Yeah, your own expectations are going to have some shade and gray around them too because you've been embedded our Dna as a human has been embedded by what everybody else expects. So we got ah the first thing I usually work with them on is like let's start. Building what you expect? What are your values. What are your beliefs. What's important to you and of course then the next thing that usually well that sounds really selfish. No no, there is nothing is selfish. It's self-care it's self-care I know some people listening have probably heard that but that's that's a common that's a really really common thread.

08:03.27
Bruce Anthony
Right.

08:10.31
Bruce Anthony
With yeah.

08:18.35
Rick Clemons
Right? there.

08:19.70
Bruce Anthony
Okay, ah, and and I love living unapologetically so that's what you're talking about when you're saying self-care like you can't focus on I talk to my friends and people close to me all the time and.

08:25.35
Rick Clemons
Yes.

08:34.60
Rick Clemons
Ah.

08:34.70
Bruce Anthony
You know I started this podcast and they say what do people say I don't care what they say like that doesn't matter to me because I can't live my existence for other people I have to live my existence for me. So um, like I dig that being unapologetic and it but it's also tough.

08:40.54
Rick Clemons
Um, and.

08:46.27
Rick Clemons
Right.

08:54.62
Bruce Anthony
For people to to reconcile with that because it is selfish but it's self care and sometimes you have to be selfish to take care of yourself.

08:59.80
Rick Clemons
Um.

09:05.56
Rick Clemons
Yes, but there's a difference at least from my perspective. There's a difference of being unapologetic and telling everybody to go screw I Mean that's a total different. Ah unapologetic way of being in the world.

09:14.95
Bruce Anthony
Right.

09:18.13
Rick Clemons
Then there's the I'm going to be unapologetically who I am and I'm going to invite you into my world to play with me in my world in this way and if that doesn't work for you. That's okay, then that just means we're not meant to like work together. We're not meant to be in this space together when I work with individuals.

09:31.90
Bruce Anthony
Right.

09:35.56
Rick Clemons
Guys coming out of the closet. One of the groups I Absolutely won't work with is a guy who does show up like okay this is all about me I've given her the house. She's got the car. She's got the kids she Wanted. She has the vacation homes all this sort of stuff. It's my time. Okay I get it. It is quote your time. But my line is I help men in mid-life come out of the closet with dignity and respect for themselves and others and if the dignity and respect isn't in there and I know because I stumbled over this man I stumbled over many many times going through this journey I realized every time I approach it from a place of dignity and respect.

09:54.31
Bruce Anthony
Um, yeah, yeah.

10:02.96
Bruce Anthony
You know.

10:13.53
Bruce Anthony
Yeah, yeah.

10:13.80
Rick Clemons
Was a whole lot smoother every time I was flying the bird at somebody like screw you you go and just accept me the way at we got nowhere so being unapologetic in my mind is being unapologetic in your pursuit of what you want for you provided It doesn't physically.

10:20.60
Bruce Anthony
Right.

10:32.60
Rick Clemons
Or emotionally and this is the emotional one is kind of funky physically or emotionally hurt somebody else. There's nothing I'm going to do as a gay man that actually can physically hurt or emotionally hurt you just because I'm gay shouldn't affect your emotions if you got emotions around that that's kind of on you right.

10:36.43
Bruce Anthony
Yeah.

10:47.17
Bruce Anthony
Shouldn't write. That's your problem. Yeah yeah.

10:51.79
Rick Clemons
So that's I always operate in that space because I think it's important to realize I don't want to be a s sob I wanted to say here I am I want you to be who you are and if I can't be with you being who you are then we're probably not meant to be in in any kind of relationship together I will still respect that that's who you want to be but.

10:56.70
Bruce Anthony
Right.

11:05.99
Bruce Anthony
Right? right.

11:10.56
Rick Clemons
There's gonna you know we could go into a whole realm of stuff that we don't need to on this podcast with the way of the world these days. But um, you know I think that's part of what is polarizing us as a planet right now is it's either. You're this way and this is the way you're meant to be otherwise you're not worthy and that's.

11:12.69
Bruce Anthony
With place.

11:27.83
Rick Clemons
Part of the messaging that we in the L G B T Q Community get all the time you're not worthy.

11:34.74
Bruce Anthony
Yeah, now that is unfortunately the way the world people that listen to my podcast Absolutely know where I stand on all of that stuff. Um, so you.

11:42.14
Rick Clemons
Well I mean let's let's just call it what it is. You are a man of color so you totally get so much of what I'm saying right? now you are you know you're told this way you're supposed to fit and where you're supposed to be and it's just it's frustrating and so I love it when I get the opportunity to be in a space like this with someone.

11:50.49
Bruce Anthony
Yes I do.

12:01.51
Rick Clemons
Just like you where we're both in the marginalized space difference is I can go walk down the street and other than I'm a kind of a big guy. The only thing anybody's gonna ever figure out is he's a bald big guy. So I might be kind of a stocky fat guy so that might be the thing they pick up on.

12:03.19
Bruce Anthony
Um, yes.

12:10.82
Bruce Anthony
A writer right.

12:20.28
Rick Clemons
Nobody knows I'm gay in towns I tell him so that little thing doesn't even show up. You cannot do that because you're a man of color and that to me where it's where the Bs starts to show up but I want you to be apologetically who you are in the color of your skin and I think that's where.

12:27.14
Bruce Anthony
Right? what.

12:38.80
Rick Clemons
Everything gets messy is what's wrong with somebody just being who they are. There's nothing. You're doing man being who you are.

12:38.32
Bruce Anthony
A.

12:46.40
Bruce Anthony
I Don't think there's anything wrong with that and and harp on to to piggyback on some of the stuff that you're saying I say often on this podcast into my personal life. Um I'm a heterosexual Cis Blackmail right. I Don't have the understanding of being in the lgbtq Plus community because I'm not of that community. But although I don't have understanding what I can always have is empathy for another person's struggle or plight.

13:20.12
Rick Clemons
Yep.

13:20.26
Bruce Anthony
And being a black man I can at least identify with that and be an advocate for anybody who's marginalized. So for all my listeners who care this almost every single episode I'm not going to stop I'm going to continue on to do this and and and.

13:34.17
Rick Clemons
Yay! good.

13:36.92
Bruce Anthony
This is the reason why I have guests like Rick Clemons on here to to piggyback off of things that I am saying and to give you guys a glimpse into another person's life that saying pretty much similar things that I'm saying um and just get you to listen. But we're we're detour.

13:50.20
Rick Clemons
Ha ha.

13:56.76
Bruce Anthony
Detour Ah so you have something that that it's I don't know if it's a slogan or or um, just something that you just commonly say but why is coming out. Everyone's journey in life.

13:56.99
Rick Clemons
That's okay, let's let's keep going here.

14:11.77
Rick Clemons
Because everybody's got a closet. Everybody's got closets. They're hiding him whether it's like okay I don't want anybody to know that you know I'm a closet eater I don't want anybody to know that I'm really miserable sitting in the corner office here making millions of dollars a year.

14:21.45
Bruce Anthony
No.

14:29.19
Rick Clemons
Ah, some people are going to be miserable in a relationship and they're just not going to talk about it. Everybody has a closet and everybody's got a coming out journey and you've got to admit that before you can move forward. All of us have been in crappy relationships. So let's use that as the example, but we tolerate we tolerate we tolerate and a lot of people tolerate and they don't ever.

14:38.50
Bruce Anthony
Where.

14:49.80
Rick Clemons
They don't even share this stuff with people That's their closet and that's why I feel like everybody's got a coming out journey if they choose to embark upon it come out and be truthful about it and move through and and go live their life on their terms.

14:49.62
Bruce Anthony
Right? okay.

15:03.19
Bruce Anthony
Can some people sometimes not realize that they're in a closet. How do you ah won I Guess they if they're coming to you. They know that they're in a closet that they have to come out of um, can people have multiple closets that you as a coach.

15:07.19
Rick Clemons
Dip.

15:15.20
Rick Clemons
Absolutely.

15:18.93
Bruce Anthony
So are there times where people come to you and like this is a closet I need help to come out of and then end your coaching you say well you got some other closets too that that you might not be aware of there are these as well. Like how do you approach a client that has multiple clausets that they're not even aware of.

15:34.76
Rick Clemons
So probably the best way is just to demonstrate like you know I'll have a client come to me a gay guy that's already out of the closet. He's not coming to come out of the closet but he's struggling like I really need to do something that makes me feel passion and purposeful in my life. But then the next words out of his mouth are.

15:41.00
Bruce Anthony
Okay.

15:53.80
Rick Clemons
But I'm an attorney and I've got this house and you know I go on these great vacations. But I just don't feel fulfilled I'm not going to say oh well, that's your closet. But I that's what I'm already thinking like your closet is all these accruerments that make life work for you which are great.

16:08.26
Bruce Anthony
E.

16:10.38
Rick Clemons
It's part of what brings him joy the thing that he's hiding is that he's miserable. The thing that he won't talk about with others in public is that for everything that everybody else looks at him goes. Oh look what you have look what you have look what you have look who you did. Ah, there's nothing in there fulfilling to him so in.

16:27.17
Bruce Anthony
Okay.

16:30.26
Rick Clemons
The metaphor His closet is the fulfillment. The lack of fulfillment the lack of happiness the lack of being able to see a pathway forward and so in that particular client's case we created a pathway forward and it was an amazing journey to watch him. You know, give up some stuff big stuff.

16:32.37
Bruce Anthony
It will.

16:48.63
Rick Clemons
Move out of being ah ah a partner in a law firm. Go do work that made him feel alive and passionate and he's absolutely fRick Clemonsing thriving and he's almost to the point this has been a couple of years he's almost to the point of making as much money as he was ah being a partner.

16:57.20
Bruce Anthony
Hey.

17:07.52
Rick Clemons
But he has a whole new outlook on life. He sees things he's embracing other things. He's finding his pathway forward. So the closet can be just about anything and the journey can be just about anything but helping a client see something. They're not seeing. That's what people have said.

17:17.20
Bruce Anthony
And.

17:24.48
Rick Clemons
To me a lot like you have a unique knack for like uncovering that and helping me see it without going here. Idiot This is why you're doing what you're doing.

17:31.47
Bruce Anthony
Right? right? So you brought up something earlier um with your personal story about coming out and religion. And I I know and a lot of people out there know there's a lot of shame and guilt regarding homosexuality and religious belief systems can can be deeply ingrained in a lot of individuals who are absolutely a part of the Lgbtq Plus Community. How do you help people release these negative emotions and find sense of self-acceptance and peace with the fact that they've grown up with these religious beliefs and these religious beliefs are telling them that that they're wrong.

18:14.55
Rick Clemons
Oh.

18:17.14
Bruce Anthony
How do they? How do they? How do you help people gain that acceptance. Oh.

18:19.14
Rick Clemons
Start by looking at what's causing the fear where is that fear and acceptance emanating from it could be a belief. You know the typical one is you're gonna go to hell you're never gonna have eternal life. My question to them is do you believe that there is eternal life. Do believe that there's something beyond here because what I want to get to and and they'll they'll answer the question I'm like okay but I think you missed the question. Do you believe you know it's how I did that the first times I do you believe there is a term on and oh yeah, had a okay, okay, great now I'm gonna ask you the question again. Do you.

18:45.10
Bruce Anthony
E m.

18:53.40
Bruce Anthony
E.

18:55.88
Rick Clemons
You believe based on what you actually know what you value? Do you believe these things to be true because what I'm trying to start doing is get them into their own value set. They may say yes I do believe. Okay, great. So if you do believe those things to be true and you do believe that god is a loving and just god. You really think he would do this to you. Do you really think he would say I created you in my own image and then tell you but you're not good enough Bye Bye because what I'm trying to really shift is start to get them thinking in a different realm and my different realm came on a beach in Laguna Beach California

19:22.46
Bruce Anthony
To right.

19:33.17
Rick Clemons
I was drunk as a skunk and I was questioning I was already out I was living on my own I was having my kids every couple of days doing that back and forth thing and I wasn't for a guy who was getting lots of booty calls before he came out I wasn't getting nobody I couldn't I couldn't. Be successful in the dating world I didn't want to be a big Ho and I was like okay, there's got to be something better than this right? and I I had just come from the bar and that wasn't really my thing either I mean I Love going have a good cocktail but I was spending way too much time in the bars I'm like this isn't really who I am and I came home.

19:56.99
Bruce Anthony
Ah, right? where.

20:09.33
Bruce Anthony
Yaha.

20:12.36
Rick Clemons
Lived literally right across from the gay beach and Laguna Beach and it was the dark and I'm like okay I'm drunk I'm just going to sit by the beach and I have this moment where I'm like and if you know what god if this really isn't who I'm supposed to be then take me out I fell asleep on the beach and I woke up with.

20:25.46
Bruce Anthony
A a here.

20:31.78
Rick Clemons
Ocean water pouring over me the next morning I thought you know what I guess he's he says I'm still good and that was when I restarted my relationship with god because I know there's something greater than myself. That's my belief I know.

20:40.52
Bruce Anthony
Um, Wow. Okay, right.

20:48.69
Rick Clemons
That there's something beyond this I don't know have anything to base it on but I Just that's my belief and that's yeah I have faith and I and you know I'm a practice I'm practicing buddhist and I will go to church in certain churches. But I don't sit I don't relegate myself to a religion. Let's just say that.

20:51.61
Bruce Anthony
You have faith? Yeah yeah.

21:02.93
Bruce Anthony
Okay, all right.

21:05.87
Rick Clemons
Relegate myself to a spiritual practice in a higher belief system that says there's more to this and so when I'm working with a client if they're grounded in their faith I'm going to help them stay ground in their faith and make that faith work for them most of the time they'll find ah another faith that's a line but 1 that embraces that. You are who you are and god made you in his image and he loves you and we're going to move you forward, but it's all about unpacking and unraveling the leaf systems that are actually causing them more damage.

21:27.93
Bruce Anthony
That's.

21:32.68
Bruce Anthony
Best. Do.

21:42.16
Bruce Anthony
So Rick Clemons you brought up earlier in the first segment that that you officially officially came out at 37 so it was later in life. Um a midlife crisis often triggers a desire for change and rebirth.

21:52.38
Rick Clemons
Um, yep.

21:59.17
Rick Clemons
Yep.

21:59.19
Bruce Anthony
How can individuals approaching in Midlife Embrace this transformative period and use it as an opportunity to live as you say more authentically and unapologetically.

22:11.00
Rick Clemons
Realize this is happening and this is such a coachy thing and I hate that I'm gonna say it but I love it. This is happening for you. It's not happening to you and that was a huge thing for me to embrace so I came out 36 six years six years later 36 yeah six seven years later um

22:28.34
Rick Clemons
Got laid off this was the second layoff in 5 years that I'd gone through because I'm a really bad hire I'm just gonna say I'm not really, but but I got laid off I was in a big technology space and I got laid off and literally the second layoff said.

22:36.70
Bruce Anthony
Um.

22:43.92
Rick Clemons
But we need to let you go because we don't have money and we know you're the one you're the guy on the team that we know you're just gonna bounce back and and I'm like I've heard this before I'm so sick of hearing this and then I embraced. Okay, this is happening for me so that I can go do my own thing.

22:52.58
Bruce Anthony
Hitch.

22:58.99
Bruce Anthony
A.

23:02.33
Rick Clemons
My coming out was happening for me so I could be more me I've had 2 strokes those strokes have happened for me to be better to myself now to can I live that everyday. Hell no.

23:09.52
Bruce Anthony
More. Right? No, you can't write right.

23:19.23
Rick Clemons
There days. It's hard to do that right? but I want to invite you to look at what's happening for you and go what's the dream you have what's the thing you want to do most What what is the lesson in this. There's always a lesson. There's all I mean my last stroke I thought cool I selled through that one too.

23:31.62
Bruce Anthony
Right.

23:38.20
Rick Clemons
And then it kind of whipped me up a little bit I'm I'm great. But I'm like Wow I see the deficits that I didn't use to see but I'm like okay well what are the lessons start enjoying life start doing the things you want to do get the dang book done Rick Clemons.

23:40.70
Bruce Anthony
Um, and.

23:45.57
Bruce Anthony
Here.

23:50.73
Rick Clemons
You know there's all these other things I got a second book coming out that you know hey let's keep this going and so those are the lessons I've learned from having these hiccups in the road.

23:56.60
Bruce Anthony
Okay, um I guess this you've answered this question but but still curious to see if there was 1 specific thing. What are your greatest regrets and lessons from being a late blooming gay man and entrepreneur.

24:14.86
Rick Clemons
The.

24:16.43
Bruce Anthony
Because as you said you were laid off and now you've got podcasts you you you written a book get ready start your second book. Probably the reason why you weren't a great hire is because you're better working for yourself. So what was what is.

24:28.83
Rick Clemons
Ah.

24:32.30
Bruce Anthony
Or was some of your greatest regrets and just being a late bloomer.

24:35.70
Rick Clemons
From a entrepreneurial perspective. My greatest regret was not sensing that within me sooner I Never thought my dad was had his own business.

24:42.93
Bruce Anthony
A.

24:48.92
Rick Clemons
Wasn't the greatest businessman. So I think there was some Dna built into my my socializing that I'm like dad can't run a business this is ridiculous I didn't want to have all these headaches right? But then when I started seeing what I could do and then suddenly here we are you know I've been pretty pretty successful in my own right? I that would be a regret that i.

24:57.80
Bruce Anthony
Right.

25:08.96
Rick Clemons
Didn't unpack that sooner. But here's where the tie-in comes in I had to come out first to realize power of me and so the power of me and the power of me becoming an entrepreneur and everything was buried under Rick Clemons being the hidden gay man as soon as I came out I'm like well what else can I do.

25:15.98
Bruce Anthony
And.

25:26.48
Bruce Anthony
Away.

25:28.00
Rick Clemons
Right? It didn't literally come out that way but suddenly in that moment sitting in the car after I just walked out of the office with all my stuff. In fact, it was kind of tragic I literally came back from vacation walked in Monday morning they're like we love you. We think you're great. You were the third employee hard but we know you're gonna be the I and and we need to cut some costs.

25:45.95
Bruce Anthony
M.

25:47.91
Rick Clemons
Thank you very much you know, but as I sat there in my car I'm like okay this is my wake up call I was ready and I think that's the thing is allowing myself to be intuitive enough to know when I was ready that was a regret but I don't know that I could have made it happen any sooner.

25:53.92
Bruce Anthony
A.

26:06.49
Rick Clemons
I have no regrets about coming out later in life as a gay man. What would I've got a little more little more hookups in my life I don't know I'm very blessed that I met an amazing guy. We've now been together 22 years I don't know that I would have been ready to do that when I was 19

26:22.56
Bruce Anthony
A.

26:25.53
Rick Clemons
My maturity and my readiness as a gay man to navigate that world wasn't there I'm pretty gay I mean I be pretty good catch I mean I was married for 13 years and now 22 so you know I've been longterm relationship guy for twenty five odd years now so

26:29.80
Bruce Anthony
Especially at that time period right? right? and also coming out later gave you 2 blessings in your daughters. So.

26:45.10
Rick Clemons
Um, yep.

26:48.78
Bruce Anthony
If if you hadn't come out later and you came out earlier you in a different world in a multiverse. You wouldn't have your 2 daughters. Um it having the kids but I know my parents tell me all the time that I was paying Nas it is what it is.

26:51.92
Rick Clemons
Right? Yeah, yeah, they're blessing. They're blessings but they're pain in the as too. But you know, let's just be real about it and I love them dearly. But there are moments then they know they know hear me talk about this on Baga I Love him but man there's days. But. And they're good. Kids.

27:12.83
Bruce Anthony
So this is interesting because you were married um and then you came out and and obviously the marriage ended. How do you tell your daughters about your authentic self.

27:20.61
Rick Clemons
Yep.

27:28.39
Bruce Anthony
And how does that go over.

27:29.12
Rick Clemons
Well, they were really young when all this happened. So I mean my youngest was eighteen months old my um oldest was almost 6 the six year old was ah obviously much more devastated like what do you mean? Mommy and Daddy aren't together the youngest one she and she was didn't know anything and that and that's.

27:31.62
Bruce Anthony
Okay. Ah, okay.

27:44.94
Bruce Anthony
Right.

27:47.59
Rick Clemons
You know, going back to the regrets that is probably 1 of my biggest regrets is that my youngest daughter has no recollection of mom and dad ever being together. She'll never she'll never be able to grasp that but I also feel like she's she's amazing because of that and if you were to ask.

27:53.78
Bruce Anthony
Here.

28:00.32
Bruce Anthony
He.

28:03.39
Rick Clemons
Them How I show my authenticity and teach them about it is living and breathing it as best as I can each and every day they are the most open minded strong willing to listen and be empathetic.

28:09.60
Bruce Anthony
Here.

28:20.55
Rick Clemons
But they're going to stand up for what they believe in 2 young ladies I mean I know I'm their parent but I see that and I feel like because they got raised in this mixed you know, family environment like many people who get divorces but you know you add the being gay and 2 gay dads and a straight single mom um and then now moms remarry.

28:24.72
Bruce Anthony
Yeah here.

28:40.35
Rick Clemons
There's There's just some beauty in that you do this by proving and showing them on a daily basis and again I'm not perfect. But I've actually heard them both say you know the ad shows who he is unapologetically every day and he doesn't shy away from it.

28:46.34
Bruce Anthony
Here.

28:57.33
Bruce Anthony
Just dope I Really think that's dope. Ah so you're not only a coach for helping people out ah of whatever closet that they're in. You're also an entrepreneurial coach. Um as an entrepreneurial coach.

29:07.31
Rick Clemons
Yep yep.

29:12.30
Bruce Anthony
What unique challenges do people in the Lgbtq Plus Community face when coming out in the business world and how do they navigate those challenges and and still build successful businesses while staying true to who they are I know that was a limited that was a lot.

29:24.81
Rick Clemons
Um, I think one of the biggest That's no, it's a great question I Love that question because it is It is a lot but there's actually a huge tie in here. Whatever tripped you up coming out.

29:30.54
Bruce Anthony
As a lot.

29:34.99
Bruce Anthony
Okay.

29:40.46
Rick Clemons
In your sexuality Gender identity. Whatever that is you know bisexual gay straight. Lets me, you know any of that Any of that stuff that's in our lovely alphabet of the lgbtq. Whatever tripped you up is probably going to trip you up on being an entrepreneur. It's probably going to trip you up on being out at work.

29:52.80
Bruce Anthony
Here.

29:57.32
Rick Clemons
Because there's a pebble in the shoe so to speak or in the high heel. Whatever you you know? get whoever you are. You're going to have a pebble in that shoe that is going to show up at the times that you least expect it. Oh should I should I talk about my husband should I talk about somebody I'm dating.

30:07.15
Bruce Anthony
Hey.

30:14.12
Rick Clemons
I say I'm going on a all-gay vacation should I not say that did I accidentally go oh girl you know it's you know it's like there's shame. So it's part of how is it going to show up now as a business owner.

30:26.68
Bruce Anthony
Ah, oh okay.

30:30.83
Rick Clemons
Yes, there's a whole nother layer cause you like you're in business interactions all day long. So one of my favorite and it wasnt wasn't a business interaction but I because I was an entrepreneur I had a lot of freedom in my workday. So I would volunteer at my daughters. My daughter's elementary school. It was me and all the moms.

30:33.94
Bruce Anthony
Here.

30:50.66
Rick Clemons
I was behind the scenes helping them do stuff I was building sets for school plays all this sort of stuff but the very first time I volunteered was in a classroom and so here we are me the moms are in. There is a pod that all the classrooms were connected to we're in the middle of the pod cutting up stuff and all this stuff. And the woman says one of the women says to me so what did you and your wife do this weekend I said well my husband and I went wine tasting into mecula I knew this could go south or this could just and suddenly I was the most welcome guy in the room.

31:13.12
Bruce Anthony
Here.

31:29.30
Rick Clemons
Um, my gosh we have our gay dad your dad right now it didn't always go that well because other situations showed up like that. But even in my current workspace where I work for another company I have never shied away from being who I am but I also.

31:29.48
Bruce Anthony
Um, ah okay.

31:36.25
Bruce Anthony
And.

31:46.80
Rick Clemons
Respectful that it only shows up where it plays into the normal culture of the workspace. But I'm not going to go fly the flag so to speak like you know I do stand up. There are times I've stood up and said um I think we need to be more inclusive in this organization. Not inclusive.

31:51.85
Bruce Anthony
Okay.

32:02.00
Bruce Anthony
Here.

32:05.27
Rick Clemons
Because a gay inclusive as an organization. Those are the places where I think a lot of people get tripped up is they don't know how they want to navigate that and they got to get really clear that whatever is keeping them from navigating into showing up in their business or starting a business or any of that stuff or going for that promotion. Um, is because there's that pebble in the shoe of the experience that you've had. It's what we call in coaching like you're you're allowing the assumption to get in the way of you doing what you need to go do because it's happened in the past you believe it's going to happen again and once you can break the assumption you can move forward.

32:36.19
Bruce Anthony
Um, wow. Okay, so 1 thing that I I'm not a part of community. So I can't speak for the community. But 1 thing that.

32:49.51
Rick Clemons
Right.

32:52.66
Bruce Anthony
Was always kind of throw me off a little bit is the alphabets right? There's so many different groups of people in this lgbtq plus community that sometimes they you know they don't always agree on what is the right course of action for advocating for each other because.

32:55.88
Rick Clemons
Oh no.

33:11.81
Bruce Anthony
Fact of the matter is maybe they shouldn't all be lumped in as this one large group but we as people have to put people in boxes and that's just one box that we put people in but what do you think? what role do you think people in the Lgbt Q Plus Community play.

33:15.11
Rick Clemons
Um, yep.

33:20.43
Rick Clemons
Yes, yep.

33:30.68
Bruce Anthony
And advocating for broader Lgbtq Plus rights and equality.

33:35.92
Rick Clemons
This is a great question and it's one of my hot buttons I Love my community every letter that alphabet. But even I get confused I'm like I don't know what that means and I'm not that old. Okay I mean okay I'm getting ready turned sixty. But I mean I I grew up I'm a.

33:41.69
Bruce Anthony
E.

33:49.87
Bruce Anthony
Um, right.

33:55.20
Bruce Anthony
Okay, life.

33:55.33
Rick Clemons
Child of flower children. So I mean come on free love was at the soul of who my family life was for a bit when we lived in Northern California um I often feel like I want everybody to be heard and want everybody to be seen.

34:08.23
Bruce Anthony
Are.

34:12.98
Rick Clemons
If you listen to what I just said I want everybody be heard and I want everybody to be seen I Also want everybody to be understood and if that's the only way you can be seen heard and understood that doesn't mean I have to buy into you but at least I've been so you've been seeing. You've been heard and I did my best to understand you.

34:17.87
Bruce Anthony
Yeah.

34:26.18
Bruce Anthony
Um, here.

34:31.69
Rick Clemons
I May still not like you and that's okay, but I think that's what happens is even in the Lg B T Q Plus Community. There's actually some discord like why can't it just be gay pride and not L G B T Q I Plus pride right. Well because we all advocated around gender and Sexuality. That's the core of all of this and it does get difficult and I try to be open-minded myself at times but sometimes I got to be honest I don't I don't know how to navigate it at times even when I interview people who are you know.

34:50.32
Bruce Anthony
A.

35:04.69
Bruce Anthony
Um, for.

35:06.90
Rick Clemons
Either Transgender I don't have I don't struggle with that like I used to the first time I interviewed somebody like I just can't I actually am coaching somebody right now who is gender nonconforming that's in my other business and they present themselves as a very masculine bearded. But we would say Man So every so often I'm going to go hey man and I always go you know I do that dance in that moment. Luckily they are very embracing because they know I am an ally.

35:31.57
Bruce Anthony
Um, but yeah.

35:40.64
Bruce Anthony
A.

35:43.46
Rick Clemons
1 of the things I've been told numerous times when I've had those mistakes they're like at least you're trying and I think that's the thing is if we would all try which again, there's so many divides right now in our world that it's really hard sometimes for people to try but when you've tried and the other part doesn't try. That's where there's.

35:47.17
Bruce Anthony
Right? yes.

36:03.12
Rick Clemons
Real discord to your question I feel like the biggest thing anybody in my own community can do is to remember you had your struggle you walked your path and you came out of your closet. Let's be empathetic to those who are fighting their path.

36:16.78
Bruce Anthony
Um, a a.

36:21.74
Rick Clemons
Regardless of what letter of the alphabet they are.

36:22.17
Bruce Anthony
Right? Yeah I so I've learned in my personal life I dated a woman who had 3 children and the oldest was nonconforming and so my.

36:37.46
Rick Clemons
Um.

36:41.15
Bruce Anthony
Girlfriend at the time said you know can you use the pronouns pronouns they them I said it's not a problem I made a really strong effort to never mess up every now and then I would and and and I would apologize when I said he or man ah to them.

36:44.32
Rick Clemons
Thing.

36:55.40
Rick Clemons
Ha ha.

37:00.76
Bruce Anthony
And and they would say that's okay, you don't have to apologize. You're doing better than my dad and I was like Wow. Okay, thank you? but I still right? but but you know I'm still trying to get better at this and I don't really think it's that big of a deal I got no argument with somebody about this a month ago.

37:06.50
Rick Clemons
But honest points for Bruce there we go.

37:15.22
Rick Clemons
Um.

37:18.42
Bruce Anthony
About not wanting to use pronouns and I said if I changed my name and I said to call me this. You would do it? Well yeah, you changed your name Well just acknowledge that these are the pronouns of which this person wants to be called by I don't understand how you don't understand that or how it's so difficult for you.

37:26.22
Rick Clemons
Ah.

37:37.67
Rick Clemons
Um, all right.

37:37.90
Bruce Anthony
Well then ah I don't understand how it's so difficult for you ah enough about me back to you.

37:42.49
Rick Clemons
No, but you brought up something that's really important I don't care where you are on the spectrum. Even even those who are in the gender nonconforming space will if they're being authentic and unapologetic about who they are. They will admit it was hard for them at first to.

37:59.30
Bruce Anthony
In.

38:00.75
Rick Clemons
It was hard for them at first to embrace. Okay, okay, here's where we are so.

38:05.69
Bruce Anthony
Yeah, um, okay so we talked about help people the different groups in the lgbt q plus community advocating for 1 another. How can they support each other and their businesses.

38:20.90
Rick Clemons
Oh this is such an interesting question just because I'm gay doesn't mean I'm only gonna support gay businesses I'm gonna advocate for them I have good friends here that in my hometown that I live in that they they have a business I support him when I can they happen to be.

38:26.41
Bruce Anthony
E.

38:39.15
Rick Clemons
You know a business that I don't have a lot of need to support that kind of a business because it's just not something I buy all the time but I believe in like referring people I refer and like hey if I can find somebody who does something like a specialty I would much rather give it to anybody. It's kind of like a wine club membership.

38:48.26
Bruce Anthony
Ever.

38:59.70
Rick Clemons
I'm not going to just you know I'm a big winno I mean huge winno like 400 bottled collection winno. Okay, that doesn't mean I'm going to go support every winery in the county here I'm going to find the wineries that I click with that I like.

39:01.30
Bruce Anthony
Okay, all right.

39:10.54
Bruce Anthony
A.

39:16.86
Rick Clemons
That I feel attuned to and if that experience is what I enjoyed I'm probably going to become a wine club member the same thing and I guess because this has become a hot button issue just because somebody designs a website doesn't mean they're the website designer for you.

39:22.39
Bruce Anthony
A.

39:30.30
Bruce Anthony
Um, had E E here.

39:35.65
Rick Clemons
So find where you want to be supportive I will always support my community but just because you're a gay business owner doesn't necessarily mean I'm going to hire you just because well it's kind of like they do in in in the black folk community. Oh you must know so and so right just because I'm gay doesn't mean I know everybody.

39:49.66
Bruce Anthony
Yeah, yeah, like yeah.

39:54.91
Rick Clemons
Just because I'm gay doesn't mean I'm going to go by. Yes I Want to be supportive and I know you know that in the black community like yeah I'm I'm gonna support a brother if but if not if they just because they have a business if the business sucks I'm not gonna go in there. Yes.

40:03.69
Bruce Anthony
Yeah, yeah, we will support each other but we but we're not gonna go out of our way to support each other well we will go it. It has be reasonable. Let me put that what has be reasonable mark.

40:15.82
Rick Clemons
It has to be reasonable. That's a really good way to put it first.

40:20.94
Bruce Anthony
Ah I got to get you out of here on this one last question because I know our time is running short. Can you share some tips or strategies for anyone who is struggling with a sexuality or feeling trapped in the closet and what is their first steps towards.

40:31.92
Rick Clemons
Earth.

40:36.82
Bruce Anthony
Embracing their unapologetic life.

40:38.14
Rick Clemons
First step forward is to admit, you are absolutely confused to really own that confusion because when you can own that confusion. How do you get out of being confused. You start getting curious.

40:51.89
Bruce Anthony
Are you.

40:53.50
Rick Clemons
Doesn't mean go hook up with somebody that means start exploring. Well what is causing these feelings. What do I know to be true hey am I sitting in the back seat checking out the women on the beach I'm not but you know your family Member. You're talking about did um, ask the questions because as soon as you start getting Curious. You're gonna start getting Answers. You cannot define quote who you are without being curious and as you get more curious. That's what helps you build the courage to take the next best step just because you kind of go. Okay yes I realize I am attracted doesn't mean okay rainbow flag out. Let's go.

41:29.21
Bruce Anthony
A.

41:31.00
Rick Clemons
You're gonna find the path forward and in that courage is where you start to find that beautiful commitment to like I'm committing to me I'm committing my truth I'm committing to being honest about everything but it all starts by owning your confused getting curious building the courage and then committing because as you start to commit to yes I own this for myself and this.

41:38.50
Bruce Anthony
It's right.

41:50.72
Rick Clemons
Applies to anybody you start to build your confidence and with confidence comes that ability to consistently start to show up as who you're meant to be in the world and what I just ran through is exactly my 6 step process for taking anybody out of whatever closet that is. I did this with a Ceo in the organization. He's like I'm absolutely miserable sitting here in the corner office like okay well what's causing that confusion about being there and he went through a whole litany stuff I'm tired of the pressure. But I really like having this I really want to like do something where I'm almost not seen but I want to be heard. But sometimes I'm heard too much sometimes I'm just seen in everybody. You know so there was all this confusion about what he was right? We started asking lots of deep questions we spent probably a good month and a half just let's be questioning why you are where you are what are you doing? why? Why is this important to you if this isn't important to you. What would be.

42:31.91
Bruce Anthony
A.

42:44.59
Rick Clemons
When you start getting those answers Bruce it's amazing. How suddenly the fires start to light you start to see the path forward. You feel the courage is starting to build you realize for you. Yes I can do this but here's the interesting thing most of time when anybody gets to that. Okay I'm feeling really crazy about really really that yeah i.

42:48.96
Bruce Anthony
Yeah.

43:04.21
Bruce Anthony
Hey.

43:04.54
Rick Clemons
They don't commit because the commitment means you're really trusting yourself. You're really seeing the way forward and you don't know what's on the other side none of us know what's on the other side but in the courage to the commitment piece is where I really work with them on. You're gonna have to operate on faith.

43:09.11
Bruce Anthony
Right.

43:22.20
Rick Clemons
You're gonna have to fully operate on faith to make this happen and then the other 2 pieces just kind of I wouldn't say they magically fall in place. But it's so interesting that all that kind of works together. But the thing most people are struggling to get to is permission to do it. The values to align.

43:33.29
Bruce Anthony
A.

43:39.74
Rick Clemons
And the confidence to do it their own way. That's the piece.

43:42.52
Bruce Anthony
Wow, that's that's beautiful and I couldn't I couldn't top off the end of this interview any better Rick Clemons I want to thank you for coming on the show enlightening us given us such great information coming with such great energy. Um.

43:49.92
Rick Clemons
Oh.

43:59.82
Bruce Anthony
Sometimes you know people get on these with the bad boys and they don't have a lot of energy and I have to carry everything but you being a fellow podcaster just great energy Great insight and I can't thank you enough for coming on.

44:02.80
Rick Clemons
More.

44:13.12
Rick Clemons
Well thank you and thank you for letting me be part of this and I want to end by saying 1 thing that always is like it's the motivation piece just remember this the truth of who you are is far more powerful than the false truth you're pretending to be. So show the world who you are.

01:58.51
Bruce Anthony
Once again I want to thank Rick for coming on the show I mean I always make it a point on this podcast to interview interesting people that have interesting stories to tell I'm just. Generally fascinated by people I know it's weird because I'm way more introverted than I am extroverted but ah still I'm fascinated by people and I love people and being able to talk to people from different walks of life. Um, that live in spaces that I don't live in that I can learn. And expand my knowledge of just anything anything that I am ignorant of I'm always looking forward to it and Rick like gaves just drop gems. He dropped jims throughout the entire interview. Um that I'm going to take away and and and. And learn from and grow from some of the things that he was saying as far as you know being unapologetically yourself. Yes I went out and I started this podcast people close to me some of them had no idea that I was going to do it some people close to me know that I've been talking about doing something like this for years. 1 of the greatest regrets that I have in my life is at the age 18 I was such a fan of professional wrestling such a fan and my parents have always been extremely supportive of of me I went to my dad and this was a summer of my freshman year college and I said hey dad. There's this wrestling school.

03:35.40
Bruce Anthony
What do you think about me going to wrestling school. He was like you love wrestling. You should go to the wrestling school I didn't go to the wrestling school who knows what would have become of my life had I gone to the wrestling school because guess what I still watch wrestling today. So you have regrets in life and. Being unapologetically yourself and embracing the things that make you scared to take those chances um is important and a lot of things that Rick had to say I feel like a lot of people out. There are in that closet. And some of them know about it. Some people don't know about it and hopefully y'all learned something from this like I did that you took something away from this like I did and that you find some way to pull yourself out of the closet I pulled myself out of the closet by finally starting this podcast and. Expressing myself artistically I've always been an artistic person and never knew exactly how to do it and this podcast has helped me and I love doing it I love the fact that you guys are listening I love the fact that I can get great guests like Rick on the show. And have really engaging conversations that people can actually learn from because let's not forget at the heart of me I'm an educator. That's what I went to school for so learning is so vital and you should never stop learning because without learning.

05:07.11
Bruce Anthony
You don't continuously evolve you want to continuously try to become the best person that you can be so you want to keep learning and so I'm going to keep educated I'm gonna keep bringing people on the show that's going to give us their unsolicited perspectives. Well, that's actually solicited but their perspectives. Um. Of of their view of the world and the world that they they live in and once again I want to thank Rick for coming on the show I want to thank you for listening and for watching and for supporting the show. Don't forget the like share comment donate all that good stuff. Jump on our Webp Page we have a web page where we have all the information for the show. Ah, all of the videos. All the audio. Ah ah our donation page. Um, the bios for all the people that we interview it's still a work in progress. There's gonna be more things added to it each and every day. But he gives you all the information and you can share that web page to any in everybody that that you feel like would gain something from listening and watching our show so please share like comment. Thank you again for listening and watching and until next time as always. Ah, holla.