Brothers in Pain: An Interview with Keeper Catran-Whitney

00:04.80
Bruce Anthony
Welcome First of all welcome this is unsolicited perspectives I'm your host Bruce Anthony here to lead the conversation in important events and topics that are shaped today's society join the conversation and follow us wherever you get your audio podcasts subscribe to our Youtube channel to get our video podcast. Great review. Like comment share share with your friends share with your family hell even share with your enemies on today's episode I'll be interviewing Keeper Catran-Whitney katine Whitney he's an author of helplessness. The mental health challenges brothers experience once we learn our sisters have been sexually abused by our parents. Just to give my parent. It's out there and warning this is mature subject matter parental discretion is advised this is part one of a 2 part interview with Keeper Catran-Whitney. This is a very emotional interview. It's a very touching interview and that's enough of this intro. Because I want to get you guys to this interview.

00:06.41
Bruce Anthony
I'm here with Keeper Catran-Whitney Keeper Catran-Whitney Catran-Whitney the author of helplessness the mental health challenges brothers experience once we learn our sister have been sexually abused by our parents Keeper Catran-Whitney I am so excited to have you in today to talk about this very very important issue. And to give me a perspective and give the audience a perspective of something that we didn't even think about when we talk about this subject matter. So thank you for coming in and talking to us today and and telling us about your story.

00:33.73
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
A Bruce I'm I'm happy to be here by the way you nailed the last name. Cool.

00:38.50
Bruce Anthony
Okay, for those of you those of you that regularly listen and watching up watch the show know that I have a speech impediment. Also once I get my head stuck on a way to enunciated word 1 time even if it's wrong. It takes me forever to correct it. Thank you Keeper Catran-Whitney for letting me know that I that I said it right that that my my sister be proud.

01:00.37
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
You know what? what? I've been a chronic stutter of my whole life or between the 2 of us. Let's so let's let let's just show some grace and it give people what they want.

01:12.48
Bruce Anthony
Right? there we go right? there? Okay so keep her let's start from the beginning. Can you tell me a little bit about your background and your family background where you come from how you were raised I Know that's ah that's a lot but I want to give people a little bit information about.

01:21.91
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
Um, right right.

01:31.11
Bruce Anthony
You as a person before we get into your book.

01:33.86
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
Okay, I'm going to give you the condensed version because it's a lot. So um I come from a family of 4 boys four girls I'll jump to a period of when my stepfather arrives or there's 10 of us.

01:36.91
Bruce Anthony
Income.

01:48.25
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
We grew up very poor in Los Angeles we skipped from state to state I went to 11 grade schools before I graduated high school lived in 21 different places homeless 3 times know what that life is all about and in 1971

01:53.60
Bruce Anthony
A.

02:07.99
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
Ah, my mother and her sister and her brother they were singers in Los Angeles actually they were very very popular but weren't able to make ends meet. So ah, she asked if we kids wanted to just sing all 8 of us we were like yeah sure you know the stardom and all that's you know we just had. Delusion rather you know it just out there. You know we we just saw all the money and all of fame coming and so we started seeing in nightclub the after hour clubs and things like this and so ah, we were doing our our thing and this is a pretty important part one Saturday afternoon we were. Singing. You know we're barely making a ninety dollars a month rent barely you know we're living on rice and ground beef. You know, having to go out the street grab some bottles and stuff to turn in just to get that money for that. You know over days we were without eating but. You know? Ah so what they were singing and then the phone rings and my mother walks over to the phone and she says hello who is this and she looks over at this shh Michael Jackson's on the phone and we're like this I so.

03:15.23
Bruce Anthony
Ok.

03:19.46
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
It's silent. She looks at the brother directly under me and says he wants to talk to you so he goes over to the phone. It says hello a couple of minutes go by and he pangs up the phony screams. Michael Jackson said he's heard of us said he's heard of me said I sing a dance just like him. He says whatever you guys do do not quit you will make it someday that was 1971 jump cut to 1977 Motown had.

03:43.49
Bruce Anthony
Um, okay.

03:50.36
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
Been and they had done an exhaustive search of trying to find the replacements for the Jackson 5 for 3 years who had gone to epic and they landed on us. We were the replacement group for the Jackson 5 In fact, we were ready to sign the largest new artist contract motown had ever offered.

03:58.96
Bruce Anthony
A.

04:09.50
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
Anyone so the week that we are supposed to sign it as we start to get into helplessness which by the way is not an easy read by any stretch of the imagination. It is gritty. It is dark and it is real so this week we are getting ready to sign this contract Bruce. Man we all happy but on check or Saturday there's a lot of f phonetic energy between my sisters downstairs door slamming all morning like what is going on. You know? Okay, ah so just this bunch of whispered conversations and things like this.

04:29.19
Bruce Anthony
A.

04:47.29
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
So so Rodney afternoon my sister screams upstairs you four boys come downstairs family meeting. We run downstairs I walk into the living room. On the couch are my 3 sisters at the far end of the couch and they are quiet something they are never They're always laughing. They're always joking and as I walked in the living room. We have a round archway and my oldest sister the 1 directing under me I'm number 2 of 8.

05:16.62
Bruce Anthony
Okay.

05:19.43
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
Pacing back and forth in front of the archway and she is pissed but to me that's no big deal because she was upset a lot, especially if I had to do with her and my mom you know they were all the time. So.

05:30.29
Bruce Anthony
Um, okay.

05:37.47
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
My 3 other brothers. They're also in the living room and they're quiet which is really odd if you're excited about signing a contract you're gonna learn what day this week you are about to become rich I mean as far as I was concerned man the bus was outside. The engine was running the seats were Wom All we had to do was walk outside and step onto the bus edge the trajectory of our life was it was New. It was exciting couple minutes later my mother walks in with my stepdad.

05:58.29
Bruce Anthony
Right.

06:04.72
Bruce Anthony
A.

06:13.27
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
And as you said this is not an easy topic but it's a real topic or that needs to be discussed my stepfather goes in and he sits on the recliner and he immediately does something I've never seen him do before he sits down and puts his hand. Up and drops his face into his hand and I'm like what the what's going On. No One's Happy. My mother who's very bubbly. She's buoying. She's exciting. She's always just up up up up up Stone face.

06:36.21
Bruce Anthony
Right.

06:51.23
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
She's giving off no energy whatsoever. Something is wrong. She walks to the front of the room and just looks at us kids now she has eight kids.

06:55.71
Bruce Anthony
And.

07:09.59
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
She had all 8 of them by the time she was 24 were all 7 years apart her first. My oldest brother at 16 They came me eleven months later that my sister eleven months later and boom boom boom eight kids by the time she's 24 at this point.

07:22.60
Bruce Anthony
Jesus.

07:27.66
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
I'm sixteen seventeen maybe but she looks at us. She's very stoic and she says something no brother could ever prepare for. She says something no brother could even imagine. In his life. We were so incredibly tight as far as we were concerned and we said it a lot nothing would ever break us apart outside this house.

07:56.50
Bruce Anthony
You.

07:57.75
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
It's impossible. Not going to happen. You can bring on any manager you could bring on any person on the street. You not breaking this group apart. Not this family but as we all know it's rarely what is outside that causes the most damage.

08:15.56
Bruce Anthony
This is true.

08:17.33
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
The most hurt and the most trauma it's what happens inside usually that devastates my mother looks at us and she says your stepfather has been molesting your sisters and.

08:24.70
Bruce Anthony
E.

08:37.16
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
My world just broke unbeknownst to me and my brothers this is what my sisters are morning long. We're talking about so they already know of course they know because they've been experiencing this for almost seven years we boy no clue.

08:51.00
Bruce Anthony
Wow.

08:56.13
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
No clue whatsoever. She said who has been doing what I mean words just started skipping in sentences. There were as far as I was concerned I was spiraling down so that was a serious earthquake then came another earthquake.

09:08.45
Bruce Anthony
E.

09:15.88
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
She says I have known all along.

09:20.52
Bruce Anthony
F.

09:23.83
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
What this is not the family meeting I was expecting this was not big the big we are about to finally no longer be poor so in about a 10 minute span

09:29.96
Bruce Anthony
Right? Because you're.

09:37.60
Bruce Anthony
Yeah.

09:42.52
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
A number of things happen. My oldest sister turns around and points at his voice and say you boys can never talk about this. It didn't happen to you. It only happened to us Girls. You can never talk about it and like that. Relationships that could never be broken between Brothers and Sisters lay strewn across the living room floor. It was ah it was figuratively a earthquake just slashing through our house after shot after after shot and so when you are a brother and you hear this.

10:19.65
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
What do you do? adults can't handle this news. You're knocked off balance. You don't know what to do when you hear that someone has blessed your little girl or your little boy in school or something like this on the street if you're ah, a mother or father.

10:21.40
Bruce Anthony
A a.

10:36.74
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
How do you deal with this when you're in your house and certainly for brothers. How do you deal with this because what ended up happening in that moment. We were now part of the abuse. In fact, we were part of the abuse the whole time we just didn't know it Bruce we had no clue.

10:52.83
Bruce Anthony
A.

10:56.70
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
None it was the 4 boys that we were just told by the people we need to speak to the most. The people who can help us understand at least tell us something said we want nothing to do with you and sure.

11:11.86
Bruce Anthony
So what? let me let me ask you let me ask you a question so they said your sisters now there's 4 boys and 4 sisters. Okay, the older sister.

11:22.85
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
Correct.

11:27.78
Bruce Anthony
Was she one of the 2 that was abused because you said it was 2 of the 4 that was abused correct. Okay, all 4 all right? So at that time.

11:31.73
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
We found out. It was all 4 of them and to give a little better context six years prior to my sister's being abused me and my older brother were abused almost daily by our babysitter. Six months so that 7 of the 6 the brother who Michael Jackson spoke to while he was in high school his math teacher tried to abuse him tried to get him at his house for a 1 on 1 so 7 of the 8 of us.

11:50.43
Bruce Anthony
Okay, this.

12:04.19
Bruce Anthony
Ah.

12:07.91
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
So I mentioned me and my brother because of context I understand the the damaged side of this conversation and I understand the collateral damage side as a brother. Unfortunately I understand it.

12:14.90
Bruce Anthony
Bright.

12:22.77
Bruce Anthony
So at this time that the older sister is saying you can't speak on it is she saying that as one of the 2 that you guys know in this moment to have been abused.

12:37.85
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
Yes.

12:41.20
Bruce Anthony
Okay, and and so this is your stepfather How long had your mother been with your stepfather.

12:45.27
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
Yeah.

12:52.52
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
My biological father was incredibly abusive. We lived in Portland Oregon and we spent some time in Washington the state of Washington and I saw some things that no son is supposed to see.

13:08.30
Bruce Anthony
And.

13:09.95
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
So in 1966 my mother got together with her sister one day while my father was away from the house and put all of us into my aunt's convertible and we drove down to California so from 1966 well um so we were.

13:22.70
Bruce Anthony
Oh.

13:29.58
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
Ah, we ended up in Guardina and shortly after that she met our stepfather so from approximately 66 until 77

13:42.80
Bruce Anthony
Okay, so 11 years and how long how long as you said the first time what do you mean? The first time.

13:47.25
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
The first time.

13:54.65
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
We got him out. She let him back in.

13:59.70
Bruce Anthony
Okay, so that was going to be 1 of my questions. So okay I got I got a few questions here. Um, when you found out later because your sister older sister is telling you that you can't talk about it so eventually you guys did talk and we'll get to that.

14:00.98
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
Okay, okay.

14:16.59
Bruce Anthony
You found out later How long had it been since your stepfather came into the picture and the abuse started.

14:26.12
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
That's well I can only tell you what my sisters have shared with me my sisters therefore abuse started when they were 11 years old my younger sisters my older sister who's number 3 it started when she was about 10

14:31.63
Bruce Anthony
Right? Jesus Jesus um

14:41.38
Bruce Anthony
10 okay, so your stepfather is there. y'all are about to sign this deal. You're getting all of this information. Your sister says we can't talk about it. Your mother says I've known about this. How long did your mom know.

15:04.31
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
As far as we know from the beginning.

15:08.98
Bruce Anthony
Okay, so here's a difficult question was your mother abused when she was younger because you said she had from 16 to 24 she had eight kids.

15:20.34
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
From what we know the answer is no except if she's sixteen and my father is 3 years older he's considered an adult. So but that's you're asking what she? Yeah, you're asking.

15:24.67
Bruce Anthony
Okay.

15:33.50
Bruce Anthony
Right? Yeah, that's right.

15:40.33
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
No, she won't say.

15:44.20
Bruce Anthony
She won't say Okay, um when when you find out all this information. What is your gut reaction to everybody that's in the room.

15:58.98
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
Stunned silent. We didn't know what to do. We were locked in place we were petrified. What do you do with that. You know it's oftentimes people will tell you that I would have done this I would have done that and I call B s on it.

16:01.63
Bruce Anthony
I in.

16:14.63
Bruce Anthony
Yeah.

16:16.59
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
Because as far as I'm concerned that's noise unless you have been in it. You can tell me what you would have done and when how you would have but when you are hit with that news which is why I said up front when adults hear it They don't know what to do? what are children supposed to do.

16:22.41
Bruce Anthony
E.

16:31.42
Bruce Anthony
Right? yeah.

16:36.16
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
So as Brothers we are getting all of this in a 10 minute span. Everyone else knows including my sisters. They've known for years. What's been going on. So Unfortunately for my sisters and you know I don't. Want to be callous or anything about this because their trauma is devastating but they have been digesting and processing this for quite a while we boys have a matter of seconds.

17:03.38
Bruce Anthony
Earth.

17:10.22
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
Before my mother walks in and tells us and then it all starts going downhill from there.

17:15.74
Bruce Anthony
What? Okay so my next question is did did the deal with Motown bring all of this up. Were they nervous because of an investigation into the deal as they do background checks that this was going to come out what what was the significance of if this had been happening for years and and this is weird question to ask because I'm not trying to sound callous in any way. I'm just trying to grab get understanding of this moment and why this moment was chosen for the truth to come out.

17:56.10
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
Motown had no idea. In fact, our manager had no idea until this day. My oldest sister had decided it was time for the boys to know come What may.

18:02.68
Bruce Anthony
Okay.

18:09.67
Bruce Anthony
He.

18:13.28
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
Boys needed to nut before things really got out of hand. So obviously you know we didn't end up doing the deal and thank goodness we didn't you know I could see us you know. You know they had our motel already created the sitcom for us I have the pilot script in in my bedroom. What it's going to be called at wits end and I could just see us going on and are hopefully reaching some sort of Fa and not knowing but then end up being.

18:37.78
Bruce Anthony
A.

18:48.27
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
And episode on big ones behind the music.

18:49.74
Bruce Anthony
Yeah, or what it was it B E Ts Unsung one of those? Yeah yeah.

18:56.36
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
Yeah, and so you talk about trauma being reli over and over and over again every time those episode did you know and people constantly coming up to us. So ah and that that ended that even though some of us still could. Tried to continue going because even though we were about the simon motel we were still with Warner Brothers at the time. Sure.

19:16.14
Bruce Anthony
So I Want to go back to something that you you said just recently and you said that one of the reasons why your sister wanted to bring this up is that so wouldn't go any further or something to that effect. What did? What do you mean by that how how much further. Could could this have gone because he's your stepfather is molesting all 4 of the sisters and your mom knows so how much further or worse could he could it get okay because.

19:47.85
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
It did get worse. It did work and then she brought him back in and you know as a brother. You're constantly trying to figure out what to do.

19:53.16
Bruce Anthony
Because she kicked him out and he and he she let him back in.

20:04.37
Bruce Anthony
Okay.

20:05.89
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
You know how do you balance all this stuff and we also knew that we were trying to yeah, get out of a life of poverty. So ah, we all expected our mother to handle everything because she said she was going to take care of it.

20:21.11
Bruce Anthony
Here.

20:22.85
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
And I have regrets on things that I could have done should have done and part of that regret is because my mother was going to handle it and assured if she was going to handle it. We went an entire 9 years before something was eventually done that had some. Permanency to it.

20:41.53
Bruce Anthony
He.

20:43.78
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
Because as the girls like okay we want to continue to try to make something of this Okay so we can't talk about it but we want to continue to try to make this career work and when you grow up the way that we did you are looking. For anything to help you get out. But what ends up being sacrificed are your siblings or your loved ones our relationships. So at some point it was all going to break apart. So one of the some of the things that we experienced along this nine year

21:12.37
Bruce Anthony
Ah.

21:21.44
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
Pocket when nothing was done to exactly a 1986 is very pivotal.

21:24.86
Bruce Anthony
So we're talking from 77 to around 1986 okay.

21:35.22
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
We were still singing. We were still doing some things we were still traveling. We were still performing one of the moments we were. You don't you tell you? there's just so much to this seeing it at the Playboy Club in Century City in the everything rich arab guy who.

21:48.81
Bruce Anthony
A.

21:53.63
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
Fell in love with one of my twin sisters the 2 youngest girls and we didn't know what was about to go down on 1 particular Saturday at the beverly hills hotel he had invited us over but my mom and stepdad.

21:56.56
Bruce Anthony
E.

22:06.64
Bruce Anthony
Okay.

22:12.17
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
Knew that we needed a new vehicle. He wanted a day with my youngest sister so the trade happened. She's probably 12 she she she's probably well. She's probably 12 sixty five.

22:14.13
Bruce Anthony
Okay.

22:20.30
Bruce Anthony
Who was how old at this How how old was your youngest sister. How old was excuse me.

22:31.67
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
Yeah, yeah, around this time she's 12 or 13 so she no this is around this is around eighty one eighty two yeah

22:34.23
Bruce Anthony
And this is 1986

22:42.81
Bruce Anthony
Okay, so this is 4 years after the revelation. Ah, we're going to get to. We're going to get to 1981 but let's go back to 77 what happens after this meeting.

22:57.47
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
After this meeting as it's breaking up apparently he and my mom had concocted an idea to extricate themselves from us kids he faked a heart attack yall and good. Ah, oh. My heart my heart and my mom rushes over is everything? Okay, okay, we gotta get him out of here and then they walk up Greg they stand up and they go upstairs. We are not allowed to ask anything we kids are left the delivering room in total shock is silent. No one moves for about 20 minutes we just look around what. Just happened and so as 20 minutes go by eventually the two of them my mother and step by they come downstairs and he walks out of the front door and we're figuring and and talking to my sisters. This is forty five years later I'm able to talk to them about this. They figure like. I did he's gone at least mom did that at least she got him out of the house.

23:59.77
Bruce Anthony
And I'm fast forward a little bit so you're how old at this time and 77 when you're getting all of this information because you're the second oldest. Um, so how old were you at this time.

24:07.40
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
Yeah, at this time we're about 18 years old 177 she's the older sisters. It's a third right.

24:16.31
Bruce Anthony
And so your older sister is 1819 because you guys are so the third. Okay, okay, so there's a older brother above you? Okay, so um, so he. Fakes a heart attack goes upstairs for 20 minutes comes downstairs walks out the door y'all think that he's gone that your mother has kicked him out of the house. What happens next.

24:38.18
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
After that everyone goes to their separate room. So no one talks to each other. There's no conversation. Oh well initially for four days for days my oldest sister she eventually leaves she's out of the house.

24:44.27
Bruce Anthony
For how long.

24:49.99
Bruce Anthony
He.

24:56.81
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
Another sister a couple days later. She's gone. The only way that we're able to pay rent on this house is primarily through our singing or through me working at a drugstore and so.

25:09.11
Bruce Anthony
Where do they go when they leave where do they go because they're 17 and okay.

25:13.49
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
My sister went took her boyfriend My sister older sister went to her boyfriends and one of the um, what are the twins that left she went to stay with her girlfriend. Her girlfriend's family. Let her come.

25:23.80
Bruce Anthony
Okay, but they but the boyfriend of the old of the the oldest sister and the friends of the younger sister still don't know what's going on because they're not talking about.

25:40.37
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
Well apparently my oldest sister told her boyfriend who wanted to bring a gun apparently to the house and shoot up everybody and so yeah, we we? Yeah, we certainly can't have that.

25:40.83
Bruce Anthony
What's happening in the household.

25:48.31
Bruce Anthony
Ah, shoot up everybody. Okay, all right? Um, no, no, so do they? Ah okay so they leave and continue on what happens next.

26:02.52
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
So we have this sex trafficking situation going on shortly there after after talking to my sisters one of the other twin sister about five years ago I learned that she had become pregnant.

26:17.17
Bruce Anthony
This is so we're fast forwarding from seventy seven to eighty one so we're going back to the to the rich guy from bep play. Okay well what happened in between.

26:19.92
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
Hope right? right? Great right? right? So around this time so around the time 8

26:31.77
Bruce Anthony
What happened in between the seventy seven and eighty one that's that's what I'm trying to to get around. He leaves your sisters leave. How does everybody come back to the house in the family and then you guys start performing again.

26:43.21
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
Because we needed money that was our only way of making money was singing and we were under contract even though the motown deal fell apart. We were still under contract when run up with Warner Brothers so we had to keep performing. We couldn't just let it go.

26:57.20
Bruce Anthony
So everybody comes back to the house roughly how long after no.

27:02.20
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
More yeah yeah, the oldest sister doesn't come back the one the other younger sister she had't come back. The remaining 6 of us try to make it work now.

27:14.61
Bruce Anthony
Oh so they never come back to the house. Okay, um, so from seventy seven to eighty one you're you're trying to make things work. You're still, you're working then we fast forward to 80 when does before we fast forward to 81 when does your stepfather come back into the house.

27:37.98
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
My mother brings him back into the house two weeks after he left it was only two weeks and she's saying okay, we have to figure out a way to make this work. Otherwise we are out of this house and we're back on the street again.

27:46.32
Bruce Anthony
Um, it was only two weeks okay

27:54.61
Bruce Anthony
So basically she's prefacing it as we need him here so that we're not homeless and so is that the reason why? So how do you feel about that being the second. How do you and your older brother feel about that.

27:59.74
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
Yes, correct we needed income.

28:13.10
Bruce Anthony
Um, him coming back in. Do you do you say to yourself. We really don't have no choice because it's either this a homelessness or yeah, okay.

28:17.80
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
Yes, yeah, yeah, and part of this whole thing is we boys did not talk about it amongst ourselves because we were so in the mindset we can't talk about it. The.

28:31.12
Bruce Anthony
Um, me.

28:35.83
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
Order had been giving down had been passed down by our sister, You can't talk about it ever and that experience of being told you can't talk about it ever just completely locked us down emotionally on this topic we.

28:36.61
Bruce Anthony
A.

28:47.84
Bruce Anthony
In her.

28:53.33
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
There was no place for us to go. You know Unfortunately, historically but women have have gone through what has the outgrowth of it has been.. There are support systems out there for women. You know their books. Documentaries There are places that they can go. They're psychologists that they can see.. There's an entire cottage industry built around women and they're being sexually abused for Brothers. There's absolutely Nothing. We are left out of the conversation completely.. It's a our sisters who have been well Brothers of sisters who have been sexually abused across the board. There's nothing for Us. There's no place for us to go. There are no.

29:30.31
Bruce Anthony
You're talking about the brothers of you're talking about the brothers of the siblings this right.

29:44.20
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
1 step programs on 12 step programs. There's no clergy I've spoken to them and say I can't help you be if you were a woman I can help you but says your guy I can't help you on this on this topic. So yes.

29:55.80
Bruce Anthony
Is it specifically so along gender or sex because obviously there are some situations where there are sisters that are sisters of um, abused and are there.

30:06.67
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
Um, who.

30:09.84
Bruce Anthony
Groups and books and information for sisters. Oh okay, so there really is nothing for brothers that are the sibling of a sexually abused sibling that was a.

30:12.11
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
Yes, Yes, yeah. Yeah.

30:25.24
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
As far as we tell earth up its kind and the first was we can tell the first book of its kind is the one that I've written and what makes mine not only unique in that sense. What also makes it unique is 3 sisters contribute to the book.

30:28.36
Bruce Anthony
Really long way of saying that. But.

30:43.50
Bruce Anthony
I Love that Keeper Catran-Whitney I Want to give people a little breather because this has been if you're listening and you're watching and you're like me right now conducting this interview this conversation you are.

30:44.88
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
To a mobile.

30:58.73
Bruce Anthony
Fill in a little pit in your stomach right now and you need to take a deep breath to catch your breath So we're going to take a quick break pay some bills and come right back with Keeper Catran-Whitney and more of a story.

31:16.14
Bruce Anthony
I Keep it. We're back and we had to take that little break gives the audience a little breather. Um, but this is your story and in your book. There is no breather.

31:26.24
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
No no and I'm I'm I'm glad you said it like that because there is no breather. It's heavy. It's it's gritty. It's dark. It's grimy and it's meant to be that way on purpose I've had people say to me, you don't.

31:40.41
Bruce Anthony
A.

31:44.82
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
You know, let us come up for air and I say know when little children and women are being sexually abused and raped or whatever they don't get a chance to breathe. This is not a people Magazine Story You know this is not a a story by life Magazine This is the real deal so you can.

31:58.96
Bruce Anthony
Um, a a.

32:04.90
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
Fully understand the impact of what takes place and so ah, you know I can't replace my little sister being pulled into a closet by my stepfather. She has no chance to breathe. So no.

32:16.66
Bruce Anthony
A.A.

32:23.48
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
If you want to fully understand that this is you're you're getting just a glimpse of it.

32:30.26
Bruce Anthony
I Want to talk we will. We'll get more to the story. But like I said I want to give people I know you said in your book. There's no chance to breathe but let me give my audience a little chance to breathe. Let me give myself a little chance to catch my breath but you titled your book hopelessness. And that's a really impactful title. Can you excuse me there excuse me ladies and Gentlemen. There is a 3 book series. It goes from helplessness to hopelessness to happiness.

32:54.90
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
All it. This one is helplessness.

33:06.96
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
Hopefulness correct.

33:09.80
Bruce Anthony
Correct and hopelessness and happiness are coming soon. But we're talking about helplessness so that all of these titles are really emotionally impactful. They they evoke emotion Obviously that was specific. What was your reasoning behind it.

33:27.96
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
Well, it goes back to what we just talked about the inability to breathe you are helpless you you know as as a little boy being sexually abused by our babysitter you are left. At the whim of someone who's supposed to be protecting you. So if you're my sisters. These are the people who are supposed to be protecting you and yet they are abusing you. There's no place for you to go So. The only thing that you feel is being Helpless. You know who? what do you? do you? just.

34:01.73
Bruce Anthony
E.

34:01.91
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
Bring it all in and at 5 years old and six years old my little sisters were first being sexually abused. There's no way for them to process this that have it make any sense doing what he made them do to him or there's just it's impossible. So even as a brother in the midst of all of this. Helplessness was me as a brother being helpless because everyone I look to for answers who could possibly help me said I want nothing to do with you.

34:30.69
Bruce Anthony
So you're stuck with the emotions and what emotions are you stuck with I think that we need to get into the specifics.

34:39.79
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
You are with more guilt shame. Ah, you are stuck with loss of self-esteem you I failed my sisters I mean.

34:53.91
Bruce Anthony
A.

34:56.55
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
This very very clear in this book. This is not this is my story about where I failed things I could have done and going into the house and hearing whispers about how come you didn't or you how come you didn't see my tears or hear my what ah weeping and. You know I was you know an older brother that could have but it took me 9 years to take care of it for them nine years and so there's just so much raw emotion.

35:21.72
Bruce Anthony
A.

35:27.72
Bruce Anthony
K.

35:35.78
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
My favorite. You know you you see movies you see commercials you hear ah songs and they remind you certainly for me of the things I could have done the song that gets me the most is Gladys night in the pips midnight train to Georgia because I want to go back. I want. Back to a better time and when I hear that song that song breaks me because I know as a brother. What I could have and should have done but I left it up to my mother I left it up to.

35:57.52
Bruce Anthony
Um, and.

36:07.65
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
Ah, people, aunts and uncles who stepped aside who said, no I'm not getting involved grandparents I'm not getting involved neighbors I'm not getting involved and I I didn't until 1986

36:23.15
Bruce Anthony
Okay, so let's talk about that 1986 the rich arab man and your parents essentially make a deal because you guys need a car.

36:36.81
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
The arab guy is 163 what happened in 86 is I was about to get married three months before I got married.

36:45.93
Bruce Anthony
Um, okay.

36:54.60
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
2 things happened number 1 My mom is all about.

37:05.95
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
She's all about how people see her and I went to her and I said okay you know I'm trying to figure out a way to keep the familying together at this point. So I go to her This is the greatest regret of my life.

37:08.59
Bruce Anthony
E.

37:23.80
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
And then I'll tell you what I did to try to fix the thing I went there and I said okay look I know you are all about image understand I do not want this guy at our wedding I don't want him there.

37:25.64
Bruce Anthony
Okay.

37:38.30
Bruce Anthony
And.

37:42.29
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
I hadn't spoken to my mom much in the past nine years but so I'm trying to offer an olive branch. Okay, you need to know that I don't want him there and that's what you're supposed to tell me so she says okay, I said if you're gonna invite him. Know that your children don't want him she said okay I'll get back to you the day. So and I walked out the house I like oh shoot that was not the answer I was expecting the answer I was expecting was oh no, he's not going to be there.

38:11.99
Bruce Anthony
What was that answer that you were expecting.

38:20.24
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
But I typically stick to my word and this is one of those times that I shouldn't have stuck to my word I given her the chance I went back the next day and she says I'm going to I'm going to invite him So at my wedding.

38:27.73
Bruce Anthony
E e.

38:39.52
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
He's there. My thing is I put him back in front of them.

38:43.92
Bruce Anthony
How long had he been gone because we if we go back to 81 he's still there so some oh okay, so okay.

38:50.42
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
Um, he had been gone for a few years already but we learned my mom was out seeing him.

39:01.16
Bruce Anthony
I'm trying to I'm trying to get this timeline for myself and for the audience 86 you're getting married 81 is that situation with your sister and the rich guy he was in the picture then okay, so.

39:01.41
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
Right? right.

39:08.79
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
And correct yes and 81 yeah

39:20.28
Bruce Anthony
What happened what happened between 167 where he's out of the picture but your Mama still secretly seeing him behind everybody's back.

39:24.31
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
He he he's still coming in going so when I said he's in the picture when we have to perform he's there because under contract we have we are group of 10

39:37.58
Bruce Anthony
Um, okay, ah, okay.

39:41.73
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
And we need the money So you know we were where we are trying to eat is is it. So.

39:46.86
Bruce Anthony
E.

39:54.71
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
I failed them I put him back in front of them and.

40:03.83
Bruce Anthony
Ah, wasn't he and well no because your sisters let me get this straight. Your sisters are 77 they leave. They're no longer in the group so they don't really have any connection to him from is was there any connection from seventy seven to eighty six

40:17.95
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
Not really no, no ah for those 2 for those 2 sisters. Yeah, my youngest twin he got her pregnant during that time at my mom invited him.

40:20.54
Bruce Anthony
for those 2 yes for those 2 sisters

40:27.72
Bruce Anthony
Excuse me hold on hold on hold on.

40:33.88
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
Back and that's what he did And yeah yeah, and my mom wanted her to get an abortion and so my mom talked her into it but my mom made her go with him.

40:35.52
Bruce Anthony
Your stepfather got your one of your younger sisters pregnant 1 of the twin sisters.

40:52.98
Bruce Anthony
In what year is this.

40:53.20
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
To get the abortion. She did not want to be seen this is around 83 she did not want to be seen coming out of an abortion clinic because she was all about image. So she made her in abortion with the man who raped her.

41:03.83
Bruce Anthony
Your mom didn't want to be seen. Okay, is this the same sister that was with the rich guy or is the this the other twin. Okay, so so let's fast forward at your wedding. He's there at your wedding.

41:15.84
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
Er twin. Yes.

41:27.89
Bruce Anthony
But this is the first time the older 2 sisters really really have been around him and this is the regret that you have is that you brought him back into the picture for them when he really wasn't in the picture um somewhere along the line.

41:37.88
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
Yeah, be out.

41:46.30
Bruce Anthony
Between 169 he does leave the picture though your mom's still seeing him behind everybody's back was him getting your sister pregnant and the abortion the final straw or was or was he still around after that.

41:49.40
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
Um, yeah, yeah.

42:02.32
Keeper Catran-Whitney 
I just learned about those 2 incidents ten years ago my mom knew but she she kept on your head. Yeah, they kept it to themselves.

42:08.54
Bruce Anthony
Oh okay, your mom and your sister knew and and your so okay, um, okay,

01:11.40
Bruce Anthony
Once again I want to thank keep um for coming on and being interviewed and sharing such personal information. Remember this is only part one. There's a second part to this interview that'll be coming out next week once again keepers book is called helplessness the mental health challenges brothers experience once we learn our sisters have been sexually abused by our parents. You can get all of his contact information down in the description section of this video or if you listen in and on our audio platforms in the description sections of the audio version. This show. You can also go to unsolicited perspectives.com click on the episode and we have a full profile of a keeper where you can get all of his contact information. All this social media and also be able to buy the book. You know when keeper is telling his story and we're going to get into the other part of this of the story in the second part but he makes a point of saying in the second part of the interview that I'm going to catch flack. For posting this because most women not most women some women I don't know what the percentages are are going to say he doesn't have a right to feel the way that he does I'm a brother I'm a son.

02:41.52
Bruce Anthony
I'm an uncle I'm a godfather I'm a big cousin to my little female cousins as a man and I don't want to get into the masculine Feminine Feminine Gender stereotypes. Um. Because I think that could be really toxic and even though they generally fit I know some women who have masculine characteristics and I have some feminine characteristics I am all male. But as you guys know on this Show. Ah. I'm very in touch with my sensitive side um have very strong empathy I try to understand people and respect their plight. Whatever that they've gone through and acknowledge that and um, so. With saying all that as a brother a son a ah uncle a big cousin a godfather I Want to be able to protect the women in my life and what keeper. Had to go through um to swallow that and not be able to talk about it not be able to deal with it and that anger and that frustration that comes along with being helpless right? not on the same seriousness of his sisters.

04:14.14
Bruce Anthony
Um, not comparing I don't do tragedy comparison on this Show. We're not going to do that but we have to also acknowledge that even though he wasn't going through it physically he was going through it. Emotionally. Because there is shame associated with not being able to to protect the ones that you love and I identify with that I truly truly do I would give my life. For all those that are actually close to me that I'm close to and I don't necessarily have to be blood I would give my life for my bestie would sacrifice everything to make sure that she's safe because I love her like I Love my family and I don't think that that's ah toxic Masculinity. Ah, at if anything I think that's human and this isn't to exclude women who will feel the same way about their sisters Mothers aunts or even their Brothers Uncles Fathers. Ah, because sexual assault is not just doesn't just happen to women. It does happen to men more to women than to men but it does happen out there and it affects not only that person that was assaulted but it affects everybody connected to that person that actually knows about it.

05:46.67
Bruce Anthony
I've dated women that have been assaulted and even though I wasn't in their lives when it happened I feel their pain and it's not feeling sorry for them in the standpoint of like I I feel. Bad for him I mean I do but it's just nobody should have to go through that and that's what I feel for anybody That's out there. So what? the the story that keeper is telling is important. Ah I think that he is brave. For not only writing this book but also coming on this podcast and telling this story I commend him and just stay tuned because the second part of this interview gets even crazier than this first than the first part and so. Ah I'm I'm not completely speechless but almost a little speechless that that this is this is like a law and order sv you episode and to know that this happens in real life. You know it does but to hear a story firsthand. Um.

07:01.52
Bruce Anthony
Very very emotional so can I stress enough how thankful I am for keeper listen out. Ah for part 2 is coming out in just one week and if you're listening or watching this after it's already passed. Um, then the show is already out so tune in listen watch I want to thank you. All for listening I want to thank you all for watching and until next time as always our hollow.